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Lord Craig of Radley: My Lords, can the Minister assure the House that there is full and adequate transparency of US high security features which will be necessary to achieve full operational capability of US Joint Strike Fighters?
Lord Drayson: My Lords, we recognise that in having taken the decision to use the Joint Strike Fighter, which is regarded as the future strike fighter for the majority of the world, it is important that there is that appropriate transfer of intellectual property data with the Americans. We are working very hard on that.
Lord Berkeley: My Lords, can my noble friend tell the House who these carriers will be fighting? You can build an awful lot of hospitals, schools, roads and railways for £80 billion over 10 years.
Lord Drayson: My Lords, the United Kingdom has a right to defend itself. As we have seen over the past decade, the requirement on the United Kingdom to participate in humanitarian actions highlighted the fact that the decision taken in the Strategic Defence Review back in 1998, emphasising the need for an amphibious capability and to project power and humanitarian aid at a distance, has underlined the need for these carriers. What we saw in Afghanistan emphasised that further.
Lord Roberts of Conwy: My Lords, despite what the Minister said about it being government policy to build these aircraft carriers in this country, is there not a report that part of one or more of them may well be built in France?
Lord Drayson: My Lords, our requirement is for two aircraft carriers. The French also require an aircraft carrier, so we are looking at a project to assess whether
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it makes sense for those two requirements to be combined. We should look at this as an opportunity for the United Kingdom in terms of how the benefits which may arise from a collaboration over the design and construction of three aircraft carriers could flow to us.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire: My Lords, can the Minister explain what precise role Joint Strike Fighters would play in a humanitarian action?
Lord Drayson: My Lords, it is important that where we are asked to carry out an operation which requires us to deploy troops into an area—for example, a nation-building process—we have the ability to defend our troops and carriers properly. The Joint Strike Fighter provides the ability to do that.
Sudan: Darfur
2.58 pm
Lord Alton of Liverpool asked Her Majesty's Government:
What assessment they have made of the recent estimate by the Coalition for International Justice that up to 400,000 people may now have died in Darfur in the Sudan.
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, estimates of deaths in Darfur range from 70,000 to 400,000. Whatever the number, it is far too many. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, will be aware that estimates such as those extrapolate what little data there are from different studies on small areas to cover the whole of Darfur. More accurate data are needed.
The UK is funding a second mortality survey by the World Health Organisation. The survey will cover a broader representation of the population in Darfur; it will cover the population inside as well as outside the camps.
Lord Alton of Liverpool: My Lords, I welcome the noble Baroness to her role and thank her for that reply. I recall that only yesterday the ICC referral would have been welcome news to many who have asked that those responsible for the terrible atrocities in Darfur should be brought to justice. Will the Minister also bear in mind the depressing experiences in Bosnia and agree that this should not become a substitute for our implementing outstanding UN Security Council resolutions and, indeed, strengthening the presence of the African Union force and its mandate?
I also draw to the Minister's attention the continuing defiance of the international community, underlined by the comments of Musa Hilal, leader of the Janjaweed militia, who said that,
Will she contrast the impunity that has been enjoyed by the Janjaweed with the arrest last week of Paul Foreman, the head of Médecins Sans Frontières in Khartoum, for
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exposing the systematic rape of countless women, the burning of villages and the laying waste of vast areas of Darfur?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his kind comments. As he will know, the UK sponsored the UN security resolution that referred the situation in Darfur to the International Criminal Court. That led to the announcement yesterday by the independent prosecutor.
As far as UN resolutions are concerned, the Government of course agree with the International Development Committee's report, which, as noble Lords may know, was published today. It states that there must be sustained and concerted international pressure. The Government have been at the forefront of international efforts to maintain pressure on the Government of Sudan and will continue to be. Indeed, it was prompt action with our international partners that led to the disgraceful charges against Paul Foreman being frozen, and we expect them to be dropped shortly. If that has not happened by next week, when my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for International Development goes to Sudan, it will be one of the issues that he raises with the Sudan Government, along with the more general issue of harassment of NGOs by the authorities.
Lord Dubs: My Lords, perhaps I may pursue the point about widening the UN mandate for African Union troops. Would my noble friend agree that it would be desirable for the mandate to include the protection of civilians as a way of doing something to ease the terrible tragedy that has taken place in Darfur?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, as I understand it, the protection of civilians is part of the mandate, but as the UN Secretary-General recently said, the mandate is not the problem. We must make sure that the African Union is effective on the ground. It is not the mandate; it is the implementation.
Lord Avebury: My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness on her ministerial appointment and acknowledge what she has just said; that is, where the African Union force has been deployed, it has been effective in preventing harm to civilians. Why have we still not reached even the target of 3,300 troops that was originally mandated by the AU in October 2003? What steps are the Government taking to ensure that the expansion of the force to 7,000 troops is accelerated and completed before the end of September, as is at present planned? Has NATO responded to the request that was made by the AU chairman, when he visited the headquarters of NATO on 17 May, for additional helicopters, armed personnel carriers and other specific equipment?
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Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, the UK strongly supports the decision of the African Union to expand its mission in Darfur. Indeed, at the donor conference on 26 May, the UK Government pledged a further £6.6 million, bringing our total assistance to more than £20 million to date. It is planned that the money be used to buy more 4x4 vehicles; rapid deployment equipment, including ration packs and shelters; and to support civilian policing. In the other place yesterday, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence said:
"NATO is working closely with the African Union and with the United Nations and the EU to clarify key logistical needs in Darfur in order to put together coherent proposals for practical assistance".—[Official Report, Commons, 6/5/05; col. 983–84.]
I know that those talks will take place in the coming weeks, and I am confident there will be a good logistical outcome.
Baroness Rawlings: My Lords, I too congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, on her new position on the Front Bench. We wish her all the best.
Is the Minister aware that a United Nations resolution last March asked that alleged perpetrators of war crimes in Darfur, among them government officials, be tried by the International Court of Justice? Khartoum squarely opposes that prospect. What steps are Her Majesty's Government taking to bring Khartoum round to the resolution's requirements?
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: My Lords, as I explained, the UK Government, together with the international community, will maintain pressure on the Sudanese Government to make sure that that happens.
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