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Baroness Andrews: Yes, my Lords, I am aware of the hosepipe ban. Such bans are part of the routine arrangements that water companies make for planning water supply in what may be a dry summer—although the jury is still out on whether it will be a very dry summer.

On the original Question about the need to build houses in the south-east to meet the great demand of those already living there—and two-thirds of demand would come from people who are already there—the issues of sustainability and water are at the heart of our thinking. We are working extremely closely with the South East England Regional Assembly, the Environment Agency and the water companies to plan for the water that will be needed. The best evidence is that we can meet those targets with capital investment and demand management.

Lord Borrie: My Lords, in her original Answer the Minister mentioned enhanced demand management. Will she consider whether a higher proportion of water meter use in the area we are discussing would be helpful? Are there any plans to increase the use of water meters?

Baroness Andrews: My Lords, the evidence certainly suggests that water metering reduces demand and that is one of the options that the water companies are encouraging. However, there are other ways of cutting water consumption. In some new-build homes, for example, we will be able to save much more water by more intelligent water use, including the use of better and smarter water appliances.

Baroness Scott of Needham Market: My Lords, in their recent reply to the ODPM Select Committee in another place, the Government said:

"the scope for a more targeted approach through the planning system . . . should be fully explored".

How is that exploration progressing? It is now a matter of urgency. Rather than there being a sensible government policy on the issue, the current planning
 
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system leaves it to local authorities to test individual decisions through the public inquiry and appeals process.

Baroness Andrews: My Lords, as the noble Baroness will know, we have made considerable reforms to the planning system under the 2004 planning Act, and the water companies are now required to produce statutory plans. While I cannot provide the noble Baroness with much detail about future planning reforms, it is important to say that public examination through the planning process allows everyone who is interested and concerned about the type of issues raised by the noble Baroness to put forward their ideas and test the evidence. It is an extremely valuable process.

Baroness O'Cathain: My Lords, as the noble Baroness has only just taken on this brief, does she realise that the water companies—and I declare an interest as a board member of one of the water companies in the area—have for ages been badgering the department for compulsory metering? We cannot get it. It is not in the water companies' hands; it is in the hands of the Government. That is the first point.

Secondly, at the moment the south-east has 55 per cent of the normal water reserves for this time of the year. That is the position without all this new house-building. What are we going to do about that? Again, it is in the hands of the Government.

Thirdly, do the Government realise that in the south-east of England the average amount of water available per head is less than that available in the Sudan?

Baroness Andrews: My Lords, insofar as we work in partnership with the water companies and the Environment Agency, we would much prefer that decisions on matters such as compulsory metering are taken jointly and in partnership as part of the whole approach to sustainability. However, I shall take the noble Baroness's point back to the department.

The noble Baroness's second point was on the state of our reserves. The companies in the south are looking at their drought plans, as they should. Within those plans there is a hierarchy of things that can be done, depending on severity, track records and effectiveness. We shall watch that with great interest. The Environment Agency's eye is well on that problem. It is to be hoped that it will rain before long, which might help, too.

Lord Alton of Liverpool: My Lords, when the Minister looks at overall housing needs, does she take into account population drift from areas such as the north-west of England? In a city such as Liverpool, more than three-quarters of a million people were resident in the 1950s, but only about 340,000 are there today. Does she accept that programmes such as Pathways, which further threaten Georgian and Victorian terraces all over the north-west of England, are leading to the unnecessary demolition of homes and the migration of people from the north-west,
 
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where there is plenty of rain, down to the south-east, where there is a shortage of homes and, as the noble Baroness has said, water shortages, too?

Baroness Andrews: My Lords, I shall first address the point about who is creating the demand for more water in the south-east. As I said, two-thirds of demand is from households that are already here. We have an increasingly ageing population with many more people living on their own. The sons and daughters of those who want to stay in the region are also looking for homes. So, we have a major duty to provide those homes and to make them affordable.

Our regional policies are designed to address the imbalance between north and south. Policies such as Pathways exist to try to generate, renew and refurbish. By no means is it just demolition. It seeks to create and recreate those communities where houses have been abandoned. We need to put in investment and to ensure that those communities are sustainable and have as good a future as some of our communities in the south-east.

Minister for Women

2.59 pm

Baroness Thomas of Walliswood asked Her Majesty's Government:

Why the appointment of Ms Meg Munn MP as Minister for Women was delayed for two days after other ministerial appointments had been announced.

The Lord President of the Council (Baroness Amos): My Lords, as with all ministerial appointments, the decision was announced once it was made.

Baroness Thomas of Walliswood: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that response but it merely makes my next question even more relevant. Does she recognise that the appointment of a Minister for Women apparently as an afterthought—and, what is worse, unpaid—has certainly not enhanced the reputation of the Government as a champion of equal treatment? While we all welcomed—as I did—the creation of a post of junior Minister for Women in the House of Commons, is the Minister satisfied and happy with the situation in which two out of three of the post-holders have been unpaid?

Baroness Amos: My Lords, the Government's record on women's issues speaks for itself. What we have achieved in the provision of childcare, and the balance of work and family absolutely speaks for itself.
 
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As for the wider issue, there are currently five unpaid Ministers in the Government—four men and one woman.

Lord Tebbit: My Lords, is any consideration being given to the appointment of a Minister for men, whether paid or unpaid?

Baroness Amos: My Lords, that question arises periodically. I presume that if the party opposite wanted to have a Minister for men, perhaps the noble Lord would apply.

Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that it was a disappointment to wait for news of the appointment of my honourable friend Meg Munn? Will she join me in congratulating and celebrating her appointment? I have worked with her and found her to be extremely able and committed, and I believe that she will be a very successful Minister for Women. Can my noble friend give us figures for the number of unpaid Ministers that we have had in Government since 1997—how many were men and how many women?

Baroness Amos: My Lords, I am happy to congratulate Meg Munn on her appointment. I understand that there has been disappointment that her appointment took place slightly later than others, but a number of people wait to see whether they have been appointed. It is a process that takes place over a number of days and I do not think there was anything sinister about this particular appointment. On the question of unpaid Ministers since 1997, I spoke in answer to an earlier Question about the current position. Since 1997 we have had 19 unpaid Ministers—15 men; four women.

Baroness Harris of Richmond: My Lords, will the Government draw up a strategy on female poverty as advocated by the Fawcett Society? This could be similar to the one set up to look at child poverty.

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