| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
Lord Thomson of Monifieth: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, made a speech of great importance. It was perceptive and possessed considerable profundity. I do not agree with his final conclusions, for reasons that I shall give at the end of my short remarks, but he asked the important question that has been raised by the events of the past two weeks in the European Union—what is the purpose of Europe now in these early years of the 21st century?
The noble Lord, Lord Lawson, was right to say that the origins of the European Union lay in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War. I became a passionate pro-European out of the fact that my father was in the First World War and I went off to the Second World War. The duty of Europe was to find a way of avoiding the ultimate catastrophe of a third great European world war. One of the achievements of the European Community, although it was not alone in contributing to it, was to deal with that problem and to create a European union with the reconciliation of Germany and France at its heart. It made great European wars inconceivable.
Now, of course, the younger generation—my grandson's generation—love listening to the stories of the Second World War, but for them it does not have any resonance in terms of the present purposes of being part of the European Community. It is against that background, which the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, sketched out vividly, that we must look at the events of the past week or so and at the European Union summit that has just ended. It was, no doubt, a dismal and rancorous affair, but it would be wrong to treat it too tragically. In my own modest time as a Commissioner, I lived through several summits which seemed just as bad as the one that has just taken place. Then came the dawn, and the Union had to carry on and search for sensible compromises.
As the Lord President said, the Government face for the next few months the heavy and critical responsibility of chairing the European Council, at the same time as being the chairman of the G8, and have a priceless opportunity to contribute to that search for a way forward out of recent events in the European Union. For the Prime Minister, with his considerable skills, it is the chance to move on from Iraq and to seek to restore Britain's role at the heart of policy-making in the European Union, as he has frequently told us. There is no doubt that the present crisis in Europe is one of more than usual gravity.
That is not due to the row between Britain and France over the CAP. I agree with other noble Lords about that. That row is old hat in the European Union—we have been that way many times, and I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, that the CAP remains a major distortion within the economic affairs of the European
21 Jun 2005 : Column 1554
Union. But it is important to see it in perspective and those troubles between Britain and France are not at the heart of the problems that face us. The grave problems are the much more important implications of the results of the referendums in France and the Netherlands over the proposed constitutional treaty.
It was a profound mistake ever to dignify with the title of a "constitution" this series of treaty amendments—that is what we are dealing with—designed to make a union of 25 and more members operate more effectively. This grandiose piece of hype by the political élites of Europe has revealed the unacceptable gap that has been allowed to grow between the government of Europe in its various institutional forms and the citizen of Europe. Finding constructive ways to fill that gap is the difficult challenge for the self-imposed period of reflection on Europe's institutions that lies ahead.
Again, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, that that period of reflection should probably be prolonged—and I hope that it will be profound, because that is at the heart of the problem that faces us. It especially involves looking for ways to enhance the role both of national parliaments and the European Parliament in European legislation. As my noble friend Lord Wallace said, it is appalling that the national parliaments and the European Parliament should have had such bad relations. In the days after I returned from Brussels, I argued that it would be far better if the European Parliament were to build on the basis of containing within its ranks members of national parliaments who carried real influence back in their national parliaments. But now that is all water under the bridge.
Now there is a real challenge to enhance the role of national parliaments. Again, I listened with interest to the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, about the work of the European Union Select Committee on which I was glad to be one of his humble rank and file for a year or two. That work may well provide the type of model for ways forward to improve the relationship between the citizen and, through the national parliaments, the link with the various institutions of the European Community, which must closely involve new forms of partnership and the workings of the European Parliament.
There is also a need to deal with the Byzantine lack of transparency of the proceedings of the Council of Ministers. That is an old issue which has now become urgent and I can see no reason why the important meetings of the Council of Ministers, which is the ultimate legislative body of the European Union, should not be open to the public, instead of having to depend, at the end of the day, upon these bizarre midnight national briefings which help greatly to divide the nations of Europe, rather than to unite them.
With the abandonment of the ratification of the treaty, there is room for making steady progress, with incremental changes in the mean time. I am an old Fabian who believes that there is much room for the
21 Jun 2005 : Column 1555
Fabian approach to European Union reform. The leader of my party, Charles Kennedy, stated the other day:
We should explore that most vigorously. However, time will be required for that. Perhaps, we need to wait for a fresh generation of western European leaders, some of whom are already waiting in the wings, and to hope that they will produce the fresh vision that an enlarged European Union badly needs. Here I return to the purpose of having a European Union and here I differ from the conclusions reached by the noble Lord, Lord Lawson. I believe that the European Union has deep and irreversible roots and that the practical issue for us all is whether we can make its workings more effective or less effective.
Within that, the real challenge for the United Kingdom is whether Britain is to play a central role in seeking to make the European Union a more effective institution in the service of the peoples of Europe and in the creation of economic prosperity, and a political influence for peace, or whether we will take the route that I think was charted out in a very detailed way by the noble Lord, Lord Howell. President Wilson managed it with 14 points. I think that he needed a few more than that for his grand design. But I think that the noble Lord charted a de facto withdrawal by the United Kingdom from an effective role within the European Union. Britain can be a major partner in a Europe that plays a distinctive role in world affairs, which is much preferable for us than a lesser role of going our own way in the shadow of the United States.
5.31 pm
Lord Dahrendorf: My Lords, this is turning out to be quite a serious debate, which is appropriate at this time in the history of the European Union. I appreciate very much the style and substance of the Prime Minister's position in the recent summit conference. I also appreciated the preview of the UK presidency that the noble Baroness the Lord President gave us, both in what it included and what it did not include. Perhaps both elements are equally important.
Is the European Union in a crisis? During my time in Brussels, along with the noble Lord, Lord Thomson—indeed, even earlier than that—when we had the first such crisis I said to a very old European hand even at that time, "What a crisis". He said to me, "You should be pleased that the European Community is still capable of producing a crisis. It would be much worse if nobody cared what we were doing". Perhaps few people care. Perhaps it is a crisis for a small political class much more than for the citizens of Europe.
That is the case despite the fact that the European Union now sees five of its major projects in jeopardy. First, there is the constitutional treaty. I have great respect for those of your Lordships who did a great deal of work on the treaty, but, from the beginning, I thought that it was unnecessary and that it was the wrong treaty at the wrong time. I am afraid that I have to say to the noble Lord, Lord Howell, "Please, no intergovernmental conference; please, no new treaty for the time being. Let the pause be long".
21 Jun 2005 : Column 1556
Secondly, there is the financial plan for 2007–13. The British position is entirely appropriate. I suspect that the link with the agricultural policy, which is totally plausible and with which I agree, will mean that there is not likely to be a solution during the British presidency. That does not matter. It will probably happen in the early weeks of the Austrian presidency. It will not be a great event when it happens. It will be one of those fudges that are, perhaps, even necessary for agreements among 25 countries.
There are three other issues that are rather more serious. On enlargement, I wholly agree with the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell. Perhaps the most unfortunate consequence of the interpretation of the referenda in France and Netherlands is that that interpretation has turned governments, political parties and possibly a good part of the population in continental Europe against further enlargement soon. I suspect that it will fortunately be inevitable now to take in Romania and Bulgaria. If it was not inevitable, there would certainly be forces to try to delay the accession. I also suspect—it is a dramatic failure of Europe—that negotiations with Turkey will be conducted in a spirit that, for some negotiators on the European side, is not intended to lead to the conclusion that Turkey should be a member, which it should be. I also suspect that the European Union will find it difficult to complete its task in the Balkans without holding out at least the possibility for the "not yet" states of the Balkans to be taken into the European family by membership of the European Union. Among my five crises, that is one of the three that are more serious.
The next crisis has not been mentioned yet. I was surprised that it was not mentioned, not even by the Prime Minister at the recent summit. What happened to the stability pact? We have an interesting phenomenon in euro-land. Many people expected—I am one of them—that the introduction of the euro would mean for those who took part in it almost of necessity greater co-ordination of economic policy. So far it has not. On the contrary, some members of the euro-zone have gone their own way, and major members of the euro-zone have in the process come to violate and then almost explicitly violate the stability pact that they concluded as a loose and basic framework for the co-ordination of economic policies.
That does not augur well for the prospects of economic development in member states of the European Union. It certainly does not augur well for what happens to the Lisbon agenda, which is the fifth point that we have to consider when deciding whether there is a crisis. On Lisbon, I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lawson. It is interesting that when Jacques Delors proposed the single market he had the good fortune to have sitting next to him in the Commission the noble Lord, Lord Cockfield, who translated the plan of the single market into—I have forgotten—270-plus regulations, directives, et cetera and thereby gave the communities a specific, clear task for what they could do.
With regard to Lisbon, not only is there no noble Lord, Lord Cockfield, in the Commission, there could not be. It is not possible to translate the Lisbon agenda
21 Jun 2005 : Column 1557
into a programme for common European action. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, that the Lisbon agenda is not a European agenda at all. It is something that we want to see happen in Europe but which cannot be brought about by decisions of the institutions of the European Union. As regards the views of member states individually, I see no prospect of rapid progress along the Lisbon road in most major continental countries, although I also agree with the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, that countries are free to choose in some important respects. Why should one prescribe its choices to the others, if the choices that are made do not impinge on the room for manoeuvre that others have?
On the Continent, the picture that I have sketched is interpreted these days as a clash of two visions of Europe. That is interesting. Fundamentally, I agree, but not for the reasons that are usually given. One of the interpretations of the two visions of Europe is, of course, the famous—or infamous—so-called conflict between the Anglo-Saxon model and the social Europe. Much has been said about it. In his brief comment yesterday, the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, made the key point.
I have seen some as yet unpublished research conducted in Berlin that shows clearly that the differences between European countries on social policies are vast. They are so big that they far exceed the difference between what you might call a median European position and the US position. There is no European social model. Therefore, the alleged conflict is non-existent.
Those on the Continent who like to contrast what they call a mere free trade zone with political union are barking up the wrong tree. For one thing, they do not understand that even a free trade zone is an important agreement, as one can see in the case of NAFTA. It even involves certain legally binding arrangements, certainly for mediation and the conciliation of disputes. That is not the problem. There are two views of Europe. To put them in fairly stark terms, I describe them as follows. There are those for whom the unity of Europe is almost a purpose in itself. It is a purpose that they pursue because they want to see Europe, as President Chirac would say, as one pole in a multipolar world. Others might emphasise even more strongly the difference with the United States of America. It is a curious notion in which unity and power are the key concepts. It is a notion that leads to a Europe that looks for protection, looks inward and has a strange world view that one can detect, unfortunately, in a number of specific European policies.
The other view is of a Europe that is open to the world. I rather like the attempt of my good friend Timothy Garton Ash to use the words "free world" rather than "western" to describe what we are aiming at—the real objectives that some of us would like to see realised. That world requires that a union such as the European Union pursues, above all, the goals of openness and liberty—openness to the outside, liberty in its internal structures—as a step in the direction of a world in which we live by rules that provide liberty
21 Jun 2005 : Column 1558
for the largest number of people everywhere. It is those two views of Europe that, at the moment, come out into the open.
I cannot disagree with the Foreign Secretary, who said that it was the contrast between the past and the future. I would like to think that one can describe it in those terms. It is therefore one of the main functions of this great country, which has such an important tradition in this respect, to push in detail as well as in attitude for openness and liberty, rather than for unity as an objective in itself, let alone for unity to create a pole—a power—in a world in which I, for one, do not particularly want to live.
5.45 pm
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |