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Lord Roper: My Lords, there is a certain irony in the fact that I am making my first speech from the Back Benches for over four years in this debate. A few weeks ago, I mentioned to some Members of this House that one advantage of no longer being Chief Whip was that
 
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I would have a good deal more time to play an active part in the referendum campaign. That now seems a pleasure forgone, at least for a while.

The speeches in this debate, particularly the last four, of the noble Lord Lawson, my noble friend Lord Thomson of Monifieth, the noble Lord, Lord Dahrendorf, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Howe, will be extremely difficult to follow. They have set a very high standard in speaking about the issues that we face together today. Having been rather depressed by some of the events of the past few weeks, I am certainly being reanimated by the speeches that we have heard so far—and I shall want to follow some of their points.

There is no doubt that the results of the French and particularly the Dutch referendums, and the revelations in recent weeks, especially at last week's European Council, of the wide differences in approaches to the European Union of different member states have certainly had a salutary effect on those such as myself who have spent a good deal of their political and professional life advocating that Britain should play the fullest part in the progressive development of the European Union. But today I should like to draw some preliminary conclusions from these recent developments and make one suggestion of a possible response to them.

We have seen two or possibly three disconnects or gaps in European approaches to the Union in the past few weeks. My noble friend Lord Thomson of Monifieth has already referred to one of them. The first, and the one about which most comment has been made, is the gap between the political class or elite and the population on European issues. That gap was most apparent in the Netherlands, where virtually all the political parties and virtually all the media favoured the constitutional treaty, while it was rejected by the public by a significant margin—significantly larger than that by which it was rejected in France.

There has been a good deal of analysis of the reasons for that, but I shall refer to two things that certainly played a part in the Netherlands, which while not directly related to the detail of the constitutional treaty would exist in other member states too. One reason is the habit of political leaders in almost all European Union countries, irrespective of their own underlying commitment to the European Union, to tend to criticise the detailed workings of the Union and not infrequently to use it as a scapegoat when things go wrong. When things go right, it is thanks to the national government, but when things go wrong it is because of "them" in Brussels. That tendency inevitably has a cumulative negative effect on the public in all our countries. Why should they agree to more powers being transferred to a body which their political leaders seem so ready to criticise?

More important, in the Netherlands, has been the failure to explain the reasons for and the success of the enlargement of the European Union to the eight post-Communist states that joined last year. Reference has been made to that already. Among the political élites in all member states, almost irrespective of their attitude to the European Union, there was an enthusiasm for enlargement; it was seen as something that we ought to
 
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do. In the same way that earlier enlargements helped to guarantee democratic societies in Greece, Spain and Portugal, so this enlargement has ensured that the adoption of the European Union acquis has provided a framework for the operation of a modern market economy in the new member states. But the case for that was taken for granted by the political élites and was never properly explained to our electorates in the existing member states. In the French debate before the referendum, the "Polish plumber" became a particular bogeyman, as an example of the dire results of enlargement.

In the Netherlands, the widening of the European Union to unfamiliar countries, which the people did not really know, led the electorate to resist a treaty that might involve a further move to political union. It was one thing to contemplate a political union with western European countries that you knew pretty well. It was something rather different to do it with people whose capitals you could not really remember—and even to other countries that might be more difficult to cope with and whose membership appeared to be coming fairly soon. In this case, widening clearly made deepening more difficult than had been expected. One of the serious casualties of the referendum, to which I hope that I have a chance to return, is the question of further enlargement.

The second disconnect, which was revealed very clearly at last week's European Council, was that between the political élites in the different member states, with regard to their concept of Europe. That has both a static and a dynamic dimension. There have always been differences of view both within and between member states about the ultimate objectives of the Union—but beyond these institutional debates there are also conceptual differences about what Europe is for, which became clear at last week's European Council. What is the scope of the Union? Those points have already been referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Lawson, and my noble friend Lord Thomson of Monifieth.

I remember at the time of the debates on the Maastricht Treaty, before it came into effect, saying that until then it had been possible for the Germans to see the European Union as just another layer of federalism, for the French to see it as the république Franc"aise à l'échelle européenne—the French republic on a European scale—and for the British to see it as a free trade area with the minimum of trimmings. I argued at the time of Maastricht that it would be impossible to maintain those differing concepts once you had a treaty of the European Union. I was wrong—they have been maintained to a significant extent, and the discussions of last week reinforced that.

That has happened as a result of two factors. The first factor is my third gap—that is, the gap between those working in Brussels, who without resolving the conceptual problems to which I referred are able to work closely together on the day-by-day practical problems. There has developed a serious gap, or disconnect, between them and the national political élites. That becomes even more serious because of the second factor, which is the absence of any common
 
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European media or any common European debate about what Europe is for. The absence results in jargon about a common European political culture.

We do not have a debate about the purposes or the scope of Europe, as distinct from the institutional details of the constitutional treaties or the specificities of particular pieces of legislation. Now there are widespread calls for such a debate—and it would be useful to ask how it should be organised. Some forums seem to exclude themselves. The European Council is not appropriate for a prolonged consideration, although the results of such a debate would, I hope, facilitate its future work. Nor, with great respect to my noble friend Lord Maclennan or the noble Lord, Lord Tomlinson, do I feel that the reawakening of the convention would be seen by many as the right way to progress such a debate. In theory, the European Parliament ought to be able to do it, but I suggest that there is such a gap between it and the debates in most member states that it would not be right.

In these circumstances, and in spite of the disconnection between national political élites and their electorates, I turn to the possibility of national parliaments initiating such debates. It would be necessary to work that idea out in detail—but I have already mentioned it to the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, in asking him whether his European Union Committee could explore in the first instance the feasibility and practicality of national parliaments playing a part in such a task. His reference this afternoon to Ireland in that respect shows one interesting way in which that is already being done in one member state. Perhaps COSAC, at its meetings, could consider whether that is something that could be generalised at a European level.

In the few remaining minutes, I turn to what I believe may be the most serious casualty of the events of the past month. I refer to the continuing process of enlargement, especially its impact on the Balkans. Although the presidency conclusions of last week, if you read the small print, are encouraging in reaffirming the commitment to the western Balkans' future lying in the European Union, the comments in member states following the referendums have been much less encouraging. I was at a meeting a couple of months ago in Thessaloniki with parliamentarians from a number of the west Balkan countries—all those that would eventually hope to become members. There was no doubt that they saw European Union membership as a key part in resolving the remaining problems of their region.

Two years ago in Thessaloniki, the European Council gave a very clear call in committing the Union to providing a future for the people of Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, and Serbia and Montenegro, together with Kosovo, to come within the European Union. The processes of reform, reconciliation and reintegration within and between those countries have a much better chance of going forward if they can be seen as having a European vocation. We still have Armed Forces in
 
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Bosnia and in Kosovo. An exit strategy for them would be much more difficult if the prospect of membership were to disappear.

Security, democracy and prosperity—the three key purposes and successes of the Union among its existing members—will continue to be at risk in the west Balkans if the goal of membership is removed. The cost to the rest of Europe of continuing conflict on its periphery would be high. I hope, therefore, that the Government—and I was encouraged by the remarks of the Lord President in her speech this afternoon—will be able to play a key part in ensuring that that commitment to enlargement to include eventually the western Balkans is not merely maintained but proclaimed.

6.11 pm

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