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Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, this is a very important point. Did the British Government agree with this provision that the noble Baroness is describing—that it would all be delayed if there was not unanimous agreement? I am not sure that that is what this House or indeed the other place were told. I think we were told that it had to be unanimous agreement, period. Can she point to the—

Baroness Amos: My Lords, I am beginning to wonder whether I am not making sense. There was a political provision within the constitutional treaty that allowed member states and the European Council to reconsider this matter in 2006 if all countries had not said "Yes". That is all I am saying to the House. At the weekend the European Council reaffirmed that position. That is all I am saying to the House. It is no different from what was reported to the House as part of the arrangements for looking at the constitutional treaty when the constitutional treaty was endorsed by the European Council.

Lord Inglewood: My Lords, if the noble Baroness will allow me, the counterpart to that political agreement is nevertheless the legal position that the thing cannot come into effect in any event unless and until each and every country has ratified. Is that not correct?

Baroness Amos: My Lords, I have not disputed that. All I have said is that there is an ongoing process. I am being asked to say across this Dispatch Box at this moment in time that the constitution is dead. I am saying that I cannot say that because there is a process. That process includes a political element to the agreement that was made at the relevant European Council which stated that European leaders would reconsider this point in 2006 if all countries had not ratified. I think that what I am saying is perfectly clear. I am not sure why there is such confusion around the Chamber.

Lord Waddington: My Lords—

Baroness Amos: My Lords, if noble Lords do not mind, I have already spoken for 14 minutes. It is now 20 minutes to 10. There is still an Unstarred Question to follow this debate. I should like to move on to other issues. I am very happy to put the points I have just made in a letter which I shall place in the Library of the House setting out absolutely clearly again what I have just said.

Lord Waddington: My Lords, I realise that—

Baroness Amos: My Lords, I have asked to move on.

Lord Waddington: My Lords, I think that the answer to the question is "Yes"—

Baroness Amos: My Lords, I consider that I have given very clear answers to the questions which have
 
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been posed. I have outlined to the House that I will set out those points again in a letter which I will place in the Library of the House with respect to the position on the process on the constitutional treaty. I really cannot see what else noble Lords would like me to say in relation to that. I should like to move on to the other points that have been raised in the debate.

I turn to the points that were raised with respect to economic reform and the Lisbon agenda. The noble Lord, Lord Dahrendorf, made it clear that he thought that there was no such thing as an Anglo-Saxon economic model or, indeed, a European social model. I agree. It is a false dichotomy. It is not the case of either/or, or of a one-size-fits-all European social model. The United Kingdom has one of the most successful social democratic models in Europe, but with 19 million Europeans out of work the main task of those of us who believe in a social Europe is to get Europe back to work. Reform does not mean ignoring the social dimension but focusing on structural reform which will deliver enhanced economic flexibility and more jobs. This Government are committed to reforms that promote fairness and choice alongside flexibility.

The noble Lord, Lord Lawson, suggested that the Lisbon agenda should be dealt with only by member states, not by the European Union. It is, of course, true that the challenge of economic reform is one for member states. However, the Lisbon agenda can add value at the European level. Indeed, I mentioned in my opening remarks the opening up of EU telecommunications. We have seen the liberalisation of energy markets which is bringing better prices, efficiency, choice and levels of service to consumers.

The noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, set out what he saw as a number of priorities for the European Union including Lisbon economic reform, the stabilisation of a wider Europe, a strengthened role on the world stage, and a budget that reflects those priorities. I agree in substance with those priorities. The priorities for the UK presidency are economic reform, security, climate change and Africa. With respect to Lisbon, in March EU heads blessed the Commission's jobs and growth strategy and signed up to structures to improve Lisbon governance.

The noble Lord, Lord Lawson, also raised concerns that the 10 new member states might have about the failure to reach agreement on the budget. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister made it absolutely clear yesterday in his Statement to the other place that the United Kingdom is committed to securing a budget agreement that meets the needs of the 10 new member states. But it has to be the right deal, a fair deal that allows them fair access to the common agricultural policy and to structural and cohesion funds, which are going disproportionately at the moment to the original 15.

I shall touch briefly on the 16 points made by the noble Lord, Lord Howell. There are some areas on which we can agree. We have always believed that the Union should be an organisation in which the views of all the member states, small or large, old or new, are respected. We also agree, as has been set out by
 
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my right honourable friend the Prime Minister at length over the past weeks, on the need to reform the common agricultural policy. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, that we see two elements of that reform process as being very important indeed in terms of developing countries. One is opening up access to markets and the second is a reduction in the subsidies that are paid to farmers not only in the European Union but in Japan and—

Lord Vinson: My Lords, the point—

Baroness Amos: My Lords, may I just finish the line before I lose my train of thought? Then I will sit down. The second is a reduction in the subsidies that are paid to farmers not only in the European Union but in Japan, the United States and other major economies.

Lord Vinson: My Lords, the point that slightly worries me about the argument is that if the undeveloped countries broadly are incapable of feeding themselves at the moment, how, with the reduction of tariff barriers, are they going to be able to feed us?

Baroness Amos: My Lords, it is not a matter of asking the developing countries to feed us. It is much more complicated and at the same time far simpler than that. Two different things need to be looked at. First, what happens within developing countries and regions. In the continent of Africa there are high customs duties and high tariff barriers operating between countries, which mean that countries are not able to trade fairly across regional boundaries. Helping countries to break down those barriers and to reform their rules and regulations is one important element of it.

Secondly, the farmers in those countries are not themselves able to sell their produce on a domestic market at a cheap price, because we subsidise products within the European Union that then end up in developing countries being sold more cheaply than locally produced products. That is not because we are cheaper; it is because we subsidise our farmers to such an extent. Both of those need to happen. Then if we open up access to our markets, those farmers will then be able to sell their products not only in the region or the continent, but they will have export markets, if the competition works in that way.

Lord Vinson: My Lords, they broadly have not the capacity.

Baroness Amos: My Lords, I also say to the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, that the figures from the World Bank show that approximately 300 million people could be lifted out of poverty—far outweighing the impacts of increasing aid across the world—if we were able to reform our trade rules in this way.

I come to the points on which I disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Howell. I cannot see how increasing the rotating presidencies from six months to a year would bring greater consistency and coherence than we already have. He referred to a revived EU allowing for bilateral or multilateral positions to be taken; we
 
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already have that. He also referred to primacy. The primacy of EU law was firmly established when we joined in 1973. I have other comments on his points but, given the time, I shall not go into them now.

The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, and the noble Lord, Lord Willoughby de Broke, raised the issue of regulatory reform. We have been successful in promoting regulatory reform. Indeed, the commissioner has now pledged to make it his trademark and has called for all EU presidencies to make it a priority. We have rallied support for a six-presidency initiative to make cutting red tape an EU priority, and, in May, 11 member states plus Norway signed up to a specific EU-level initiative on administrative burdens.

Enlargement was raised by the noble Lords, Lord Roper, Lord Selsdon and Lord Pearson of Rannoch, and others. We have always championed enlargement; the European Council has just reaffirmed its clear commitment to it, which is pleasing. During the presidency, we will take that forward. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Roper, about the western Balkans that we recognise the role of enlargement in spreading peace and stability. We hope to see Croatia and other countries in the western Balkans working to fulfil political and economic conditionality, including full co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, which has been an issue of some contention, as he will know.

The noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, asked where enlargement of the EU's borders would end. Enlargement is one of the most successful peaceful foreign policies in history. It has helped to stabilise the former Warsaw Pact countries of eastern Europe, and the prospect of accession has also been one of the strongest drivers of stabilisation and modernisation in Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia, Turkey and the western Balkans. We are pleased that the recent European Council has reaffirmed its commitment to enlargement.

The noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, asked what parts of the EU constitutional treaty were being implemented. I am not aware of any formal or informal legislative proposals that rely on the treaty as their base. He mentioned some studies. There are a wide range of studies and, of course, it is not possible for us to evaluate them all.

I turn to greater involvement of our citizens, national parliaments and accountability. The noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, who has great expertise in the matter, raised subsidiarity and national parliament mechanisms that could be brought in without the treaty. It is too early to get into the debate about what can be implemented without the treaty. It was negotiated over years and is tightly interlocked. However, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary signalled some sympathy with the view expressed by the noble Lord in his Statement in another place on 6 June.

The noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, also asked whether I would give a commitment to national parliaments being at the forefront of involvement during our presidency. We have always been a strong
 
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advocate for national parliaments, including advocating the subsidiarity early warning mechanism in the treaty.

The noble Lord, Lord Roper, pointed to the need for a debate in each national parliament on the future of the European Union. We support that need and fully expect there to be such debates over the coming months. Mention was made in the debate of the Conference of European Affairs Committees, which is comprised of representatives of the European affairs committees of EU member states' national parliaments, along with representatives from the European Parliament. Its main function is to strengthen the role of the national parliaments in relation to the Community process by bringing together the European affairs committees. That is a most helpful process in building networks and interest throughout Community states.

The noble Lord, Lord Maclennan, was eloquent in his call for the need for greater accountability in the EU. One of the issues that will need to form part of the wider debate following the rejection of the constitutional treaty by French and Dutch voters is accountability. It is a little too early to say how that will pan out over the next few months.

My noble friend Lord Tomlinson asked: "We know what we are against, but what are we for?". The noble Lord, Lord Selsdon, asked: "Where does the future lie?". My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made it clear that the United Kingdom will play a leading role in the debate on reconnecting citizens to the European Union. We are for a strong Europe that bolsters the strength of nation states. Of course we are for a fair budget, which is an important part of the debate.

The noble Lord, Lord Willoughby de Broke, asked what the UK got for its money from EU membership. In my opening remarks, I talked about the important way in which the European Union enabled our businesses to trade freely across Europe and allowed British people to move and work where they want. The European Union creates an area of freedom, security and justice in Europe; it supports Europe's poorer regions; and it delivers environmental improvements, to name but a few things.

Before I end, I return to a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, on foreign policy. One example of the importance of the EU being able to work together on areas of foreign policy is the EU common position on Burma. As regards peacekeeping, for example, I well remember when the European Union was asked to send peacekeepers to the Democratic Republic of Congo. The United Kingdom contributed to that peace mission, which was under the leadership of France. There are many areas where the EU can work collectively, but we are all agreed that there will be many areas in which national governments will want to retain control over their foreign policy. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

In conclusion, I want to reiterate what I said at the beginning. European citizens have voiced their concerns, which European leaders will need to listen to and address. It is therefore right that the European Council
 
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recommended a period of reflection to enable a broad debate to take place. It is an opportunity to reconnect citizens with Europe. We have a clear interest in shaping that debate and in leading reform in Europe, and that is what this Government intend to do.

On Question, Motion agreed to.

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