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Lord McColl of Dulwich: My Lords, before the right reverend Prelate sits down, does he agree that if, under those conditions, the policeman is asked to shoot the driver of the petrol tanker, he would refuse not for any ethical reason but simply because he would know that to fire a gun in those circumstances would blow the whole thing up?

The Lord Bishop of Oxford: My Lords, I shall just note that point and ponder on it.

5.54 pm

Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen: My Lords, I, too, congratulate the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, and his committee members on their well balanced report.

There is no doubt that those who support and those who oppose the Assisted Dying for the Terminally Ill Bill introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Joffe, hold
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genuine and sincerely held views upon it, and that, as usual in your Lordship's Chamber, the debate is being conducted with respect for each other's views.

Many of us know people who believe their lives to be painful beyond tolerance, and we all wish such suffering to be alleviated. Where we are divided is on whether, and how much, help should be given to terminally ill people to end their lives, should they wish to do so. I put my name down to speak in this debate before our long summer break began. I believed in the proposals in the Bill then and I believe in them now.

During the summer, a number of events strengthened my support for such legislation. I watched a television debate on the Bill. An intelligent and articulate woman, with an equally intelligent and articulate brother, explained why she helped him to die peacefully and, as they put it, with dignity. A key reason was that the brother, whose intellect remained, was slowly losing his ability to articulate, and his misery and frustration at his illness and loss of faculties was almost tangible through the television set.

The brother and sister travelled abroad to achieve his aims—to end his life in what he described as a dignified manner at a time of his choosing with those he loved most with him. His quiet determination shone out of the film that the family had made of his illness and of the decisions he took about it.

Almost on the same day, I received a letter from a young woman with a terminal illness. Indeed, it may be the same letter as that received by the noble Lord, Lord Russell-Johnston, who mentioned it in his speech. The young woman is 28 years old and has heart and lung problems, causing her to deteriorate slowly. She uses oxygen constantly and is severely physically limited. She has been told that she will continue to deteriorate. She wrote:

She does not want to travel abroad; she wants to die in her own country. She pleads with us to listen to our public and to hear their voices. The Bill, which is the subject of this report, would allow her to die in the way she wishes at a time she chooses. I do not believe that we have a right to deny her that.

I also received a moving letter from a young woman about her father's death. He had wished to be helped to die. She wrote:

I believe that that is true.

Obviously I have received letters both for and against changing the legislation, as I am sure we all have, from individuals and associations, and I shall mention just one or two. I was particularly grateful to the BMA and the GMC. They both clearly set out their stance on future legislation, which in both cases is
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neutral. I had heard from doctors for and against the proposed legislation, with both sides claiming the backing of the BMA and the GMC, and so I was relieved to have this issue cleared up. I understand that both organisations have said that, if such a Bill became law, they would be able to publish guidelines to underpin the practice.

A further letter came from the disability committee of the National Union of Students. The committee members are elected representatives of students who have various disabilities, both seen and hidden. They support such a Bill, believing that it will protect vulnerable disabled people more than the current law does. On the other hand, RADAR, for which I have a great deal of respect and with which I have worked in the past through my work at my union, Amicus, sent a very thoughtful briefing in which it explained why it cannot support the introduction of the proposed legislation at this time. But it stressed the need for better and increasing palliative care—a point with which I agree wholeheartedly.

As do others in the Chamber, I believe in the expansion and extension of palliative care. I believe that those who choose to receive it must have the best treatment possible and that equitable access to palliative care for all should be provided. That is in line with the response of the National Council of Palliative Care to the report on the Bill. I differ from the NCPC in that I do not believe that this must be provided before pursuing assisted dying for the terminally ill. It is possible to press for better palliative care at the same time as allowing the assisted dying option for those who choose to take that route. Palliative care and assisted dying are not mutually exclusive. Both are needed, and should be allowed.

Finally, I am sure that if a new Bill is introduced, it will be discussed in depth in this House. I am also sure that improvements will be made during those discussions and amendments. I support the noble Lord, Lord Joffe, in his efforts to bring forward well-constructed legislation in this difficult area.

6.1 pm

Lord Gilmour of Craigmillar: My Lords, we have heard strong speeches on both sides. I shall look briefly at the arguments against the Bill.

The strongest argument against the Bill, of course, is that assisted dying may enable jealous and tiresome relatives, or others, to persuade old people to agree to be killed because they think that they have become an intolerable burden to their children and friends. However, the Bill provides stringent safeguards against that happening. It has not happened in Oregon, as my noble friend Lord Arran made clear, and, as the noble Lord, Lord Taverne, said, it has not happened in Holland. Moreover, the Joint Committee on Human Rights decided that the safeguards in the Bill were adequate to protect the vulnerable.

Secondly, there is the slippery slope argument, which maintains that, if the Bill is passed, all sorts of dreadful Bills or actions will be passed in future. We
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are always on the slippery slope; it is not necessarily a bad slippery slope—it may slope in the right direction. The slippery slope argument has probably been used against almost every measure for some 200 years. It is often a favourable slope, as the history of the Reform Bills in this House well shows. In any case, the view that we should not do the right thing today because somebody else may do the wrong thing tomorrow is surely not a compelling argument.

Then there is the argument that committing suicide, or helping somebody to do so, is wrong because of the sanctity of life. Since 1961, however, suicide has not been illegal—though assisting suicide is, of course. If the terminally ill person is incapable of doing what he wants because of the illness, however, different considerations should surely apply. The sanctity of life is a difficult concept. It is evidently not known or followed by Messrs Bush and Blair, who are killing thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq. According to President Bush, it is not even known to God, since God told him to launch the invasion.

The idea that it is God's will that an old and weak person should spend a month or so dying in agony and dissolution, to the anguish and distress of his family, rather than being allowed to die with dignity a few weeks earlier as the result of an assisted suicide seems extraordinary to me. The most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford put that argument separately in the papers on Sunday—the right reverend Prelate put it again today—and it seems explicit in both articles. I quote the article of the right reverend Prelate:

If I were in a state of terminal illness and extreme agony and somebody came along and said that to me, I hope that I would convey my displeasure—I probably would not be well enough to hit him—and make him leave that room pretty soon. It seems to me to be well beyond the reach of any form of reality, although, as the right reverend Prelate said, it may still be rational.

We know that doctors, hospitals and nurses allow terminally ill people to refuse life-preserving treatment or drugs, a practice that the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury supports. The fact that that is permissible but that doctors are not allowed to administer a drug or medicine that will kill patients quicker and more mercifully is equally extraordinary and reminds one irresistibly of the famous words of Arthur Hugh Clough:

I appreciate, of course, that some doctors have strong views and would not want to participate in any such process. They should obviously be allowed not to do so. Other doctors would do the job, and their feelings should be respected.

The arguments against the Bill introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Joffe, do not stand up. I strongly support it.
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6.6 pm

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