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The Chairman of Committees: My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, is absolutely right. However, prior to the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, tabling the Question, this matter was never raised with me or, as far as I can discover, with anyone else. That is why nothing has been done about it for so many years. If the Commons changed their rule in 1993, we could do well to do the same. We have been ahead of the Commons on several occasions. We created the first dedicated Press Gallery in October 1831, three and a half years before the Commons. More recently, in 1985, we allowed our proceedings to be televised, four years before the House of Commons.

Baroness Trumpington: My Lords, perhaps I may endeavour to put a little wind back into the noble Lord's sails. Is it not possible for a pen to be a bomb?

The Chairman of Committees: My Lords, it could be possible, but it would be a fairly small bomb. And members of the public could bring into the galleries other items of equal size to a pen. Members of the public in the galleries will still not be allowed to smoke, to read books or papers other than the papers of the House, to draw or write—well, they will be allowed to write—or to bring in cameras, transistor radios or other electronic devices.

Lord McNally: My Lords, the Chairman of Committees mentioned the debate on the Puttnam report. Does he recall that at the end of that debate, the noble Baroness, Lady Amos, the Leader of the House, promised to place in the Library one or two sides of A4 on which it was made clear to which committee
 
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each suggestion or recommendation in the report had been referred? Those two sides are not yet in the Library. Will the Chairman of Committees give the Leader of the House a gentle nudge, because those two sides of paper will be the guarantee that the many sensible suggestions, including that which my noble friend made in the report, do not disappear into some parliamentary black hole? Those two sides of paper will allow us to check whether the recommendations in the Puttnam report are to be implemented.

The Chairman of Committees: My Lords, the Leader of the House is not sitting far away from me. I can say that a list of the recommendations will fairly soon be placed in the Library of the House.

Lord Maxton: My Lords, given that there seems to be general agreement within the House that we should improve the facilities for visitors and for ourselves, would it not be a good idea to copy the House of Commons and have monitors around the Chamber to allow Members to see who is speaking and on what debate, and therefore generally improve the information available to all of us?

The Chairman of Committees: My Lords, that is a possibility. The monitors in the Public Gallery have relatively recently been improved so that it is now possible to see what is happening in the Chamber. Members will see that they are fairly large screens.

Lord Tebbit: My Lords, would it not be a good idea if the Chairman of Committees and all Members resisted the mad idea of this House being dragged into this century? It is a very disagreeable century. Would it not be a better idea to drag us back perhaps into the 19th century, which in many ways was a very much better one for this country?

The Chairman of Committees: My Lords, I do not think that anything I have said today could be construed as bringing us into this century. I am actually trying to bring us into the previous one.

School Building Programme

2.59 pm

Baroness Walmsley asked Her Majesty's Government:

What is their response to the recent figures released by the Construction Products Association which suggest that the number of schools built or renewed over the three years to the end of 2004 fell short of projections.

Lord Adonis: My Lords, for the three years to 2004, the Government funded the construction of 374 new or replacement schools through PFI; 91 new or replacement voluntary-aided schools; and substantial renovation funding for 490 schools through the schools targeted capital fund. In addition, £5 billion of schools capital funding was allocated locally by local
 
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authorities and schools. We therefore believe that the target of 650 new or refurbished schools was met or exceeded.

Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer. Is he aware of the comments made by Sir Digby Jones, the director-general of the CBI, that the Government have failed to meet too many of their own targets, failed to monitor progress, and failed to demonstrate whether the billions spent have been good value investments? Will the Government therefore be transparent about the progress of the Building Schools for the Future programme and commission an up-to-date assessment of the reasons for any backlog that might exist in the school buildings and repairs programme and whether the whole programme is actually value for money?

Lord Adonis: My Lords, no school has yet been built under the Building Schools for the Future programme but I will bear in mind the noble Baroness's remarks. So far as the backlog is concerned, as she will know, every local authority in the country has a responsibility for conducting an asset management plan in respect of all the schools in its area, which they take very seriously indeed. It is on the basis of those asset management plans that all the Building Schools for the Future projections and plans are being taken forward.

Baroness Gardner of Parkes: My Lords, do the new and the refurbished schools include sprinkler systems against fire? We have been told in this House that it would be practical to put them in at this stage, whereas it would be too expensive to put them into existing buildings. All the fire authorities believe that it would be beneficial.

Lord Adonis: My Lords, the schools do meet the requisite fire regulations, but I cannot tell the noble Baroness precisely the position in respect of sprinkler systems.

Lord Dearing: My Lords, does the Minister agree that there might be an advantage for schools that have playing fields to enter into partnership with the private sector, thus reducing the need for capital? The school leases playing areas to a private sector firm that inputs the capital to bring those facilities up to the latest modern standards, making the facilities available to the school during school hours and to the community on a commercial basis at other times.

Lord Adonis: My Lords, the noble Lord makes a good point. Many such partnerships are in progress already, including many highly innovative local authorities that have developed programmes for their schools. I am sure that such good practice could be much more widely copied.
 
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Baroness Sharp of Guildford: My Lords, is the Minister aware of the recent report from the Building Services Association and KPMG, which suggests that a quarter of PFI schemes were unprofitable, that 61 per cent of the firms participating in them have been hit by financial penalties and that 64 per cent are contemplating raising their prices in the future? Does that not make the Government's plans under Building Schools for the Future somewhat ambitious?

Lord Adonis: My Lords, we do not believe so. It shows that we have effective risk-sharing arrangements with the private sector.

Lord Elton: My Lords, how many of the schools in the scheme that the Minister has just told us about have been built without kitchens for cooking food for children in the same building rather than just heating it up?

Lord Adonis: My Lords, all the schools in question must be built to the Building Bulletin standard 98 for schools, which lays down stringent standards in respect of kitchens.

Baroness Buscombe: My Lords, what measures are in place to ensure that capital resources are allocated to urgent improvement needs?

Lord Adonis: My Lords, a whole set of arrangements is in place. The targeted capital fund for schools targets funding specifically on the most urgent and needy cases. Similarly, the phasing of the Building Schools for the Future programme is related specifically to need and deprivation, so we have a robust system of prioritisation in place.

Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, does the Minister share my concern about the time involved for headteachers when they are working with partners on a PFI scheme for a new school? What will the Government do to ensure that the headteachers' role of leading a school will not suffer when they have to spend so much time on a scheme such as this?

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