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House of Lords

Tuesday, 29 November 2005.

The House met at half-past two of the clock: the LORD CHANCELLOR on the Woolsack.

Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Manchester.

Internet Gambling: Age Verification

Lord Faulkner of Worcester asked Her Majesty's Government:

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the final responsibility for age verification rests with the online gambling industry. We welcome the Remote Gambling Association's code of practice on social responsibility, which it will make a condition of membership. We are also supportive of the efforts that the industry is making to engage the banking sector on this issue. My noble friend Lord McIntosh, the then Minister for gambling regulation, wrote to the banking sector to encourage its co-operation during the passage of the Gambling Act, and several meetings at official level have since taken place.

Lord Faulkner of Worcester: My Lords, I declare an interest as a trustee of the charity GamCare and I thank my noble friend for his reply. His comments about the code of practice produced by the Remote Gambling Association will be widely shared throughout the industry and among those concerned with the problem of gambling. However, is he aware that children as young as 11 are able to obtain debit cards such as the Solo card from high street banks which are then used to finance illegal purchases of Internet gambling and other items available on the Internet such as knives? Does he not agree that it is time that the banks themselves took some responsibility for proper proof of age verification before they allow their cards to be used in this irresponsible way?

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, my noble friend is right to say that there are some problems regarding the issue of credit cards, but he will recognise that when credit cards are used for gambling, which is the concern of my department, it is for the industry to carry out verification checks. I know that the banking industry is anxious about credit cards being misdirected.

Viscount Falkland: My Lords, will the noble Lord take my assurance that the use of credit and debit cards in gambling is carefully policed at least by the major operators in the field? It is in their interest not only to remain squeaky clean in the new betting environment, but also to deal only with the right people because of the
 
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risks they run if they do not. But it is not credit cards that are the problem, because they are extremely difficult to get from an online company; rather it is debit cards, which young people can access. Further, is the noble Lord aware that the leading company in the field, with whom I have just spoken, employs six people whose day-to-day job is to ensure that young people do not have access to gambling accounts using their debit cards?

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the gambling industry is fully apprised of the implications of the Gambling Act, which has very much toughened up the requirements placed on the industry. As the noble Viscount indicated, the issue of verification is important particularly in relation to children under 16 who seek to place bets. The industry is all too well aware that it needs to show that it has robust systems in place. I think that the House will recognise that the leading companies in the area of gambling via the Internet, a more recent development, also are keen to safeguard their reputations. That is why the code of practice has been introduced.

Lord Forsyth of Drumlean: My Lords, I seem to recall that when I was a Minister in the Home Office it was not possible to use a credit card to settle a gambling debt. Was it not this Government who liberalised that, and is it not a bit strange that a Government who keep telling us how concerned they are about the exposure of young people to gambling and alcohol have chosen at the same time to liberalise the legislation which has protected them?

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, it might also seem a little strange to be challenged on liberalisation from the particular source of the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth. I emphasise that the Gambling Act ensures that the industry meets the requirements of the legislation with regard to its operations. As I indicated, the industry is all too well aware of its responsibilities in this area. There is a particular problem about young people getting access to credit through false identification or because, as my noble friend indicated, now and again credit cards are misdirected to juniors. But it is for the gambling organisations to carry out the verification and some very robust systems are in place.

The Lord Bishop of Manchester: My Lords, in the light of that reply, is the Minister now satisfied that the age verification software to block online registration has in fact been sufficiently installed by the gambling industry?

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, I am grateful for that question. We are not satisfied because there are some weak links and we know of a small number of abuses that have taken place. We are constrained to ensure that the verification systems become both robust and universal. That is why we have been talking with the banks and why we are eager to ensure that the code of conduct reinforces that in the industry.

Baroness Howe of Idlicote: My Lords, it is up to the banks and other industries to ensure that they undertake
 
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responsible lending. However, there is growing concern at the number of children who are able to gamble. I know that the Government do not believe that children and gambling go together. Have they given any further thought to whether Ofcom should be given responsibility for monitoring what is going on in the growing online industry and specific responsibility for reporting back on these matters so that we, the public, know what is happening?

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right that the Government want to make sure that gambling is not carried out by children under 16. That is why, for instance, the National Lottery has the most robust system of all on age verification and can point to a considerable record over the years of ensuring that children do not play. There are problems across the wide range of the gambling industry. That is why we introduced the Gambling Act to modernise our capacity for regulation where it is necessary. We expect the industry to respond to this regulation, as it has clearly shown it intends to do, through the code of practice with which every reputable gambling organisation will be expected to comply

Viscount Astor: My Lords, the Minister said that the industry has a verification process which he agrees works well both electronically and manually. But does he also agree that the great danger at the moment lies with the Treasury? If the Treasury increases the tax rate on Internet gambling organisations based in this country, they will just go abroad. It will then be impossible to verify whether foreign-based operators are behaving as they should.

Lord Davies of Oldham: My Lords, we are concerned about foreign-based gambling facilities, which are quite extensive. British operations on the Internet are in the minority. We are taking steps, for instance, to ensure that unless an organisation complies with the code of practice and meets our standards we will restrict its capacity to advertise its facilities in Europe. We will need a Europe-wide decision on that, but we are fully apprised of the issue to which the noble Viscount rightly draws attention.

Looked-after Children

2.44 pm

Baroness Buscombe asked Her Majesty's Government:

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education and Skills (Lord Adonis): My Lords, school improvement partners, who are replacing the old system of school link advisers, are largely serving or former head teachers of good
 
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standing. They have an important role in discussing with head teachers how effectively each school is performing for all its pupils. The department has issued guidance to school improvement partners, which includes questions about how schools support looked-after children and how their needs are fully reflected in school policies.


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