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Baroness Royall of Blaisdon: Thank you, my Lords. I am grateful to all noble Lords for being here at this late hour rather than merry-making. I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, and all members of his excellent committee for its excellent stream of excellent reports.

As your Lordships will recognise, the Government have been a long and consistent advocate of strengthening the role of national parliaments in the European Union. It was therefore with great pleasure that I read the 14th and 15th reports of the European Union Committee and I listened with interest to today's debate on the early warning mechanism and the constitutional treaty. As noble Lords have highlighted, subsidiarity is an important principle. Indeed, it is an essential element of good European governance in the 21st century.

The Government have consistently advocated strengthening the EU principle of subsidiarity. Shortly after we came to power in 1997, we were instrumental
 
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in strengthening the protocols on subsidiarity, proportionality and national parliaments in the Treaty of Amsterdam. We continued to support strengthening the role of national parliaments during the process of the Convention on the Future of Europe and subsequently throughout the negotiations on the intergovernmental conference. If ratified, the treaty would introduce revised protocols on subsidiarity and national parliaments—a matter addressed by the report and by many noble Lords today. If applied correctly and rigorously, subsidiarity would ensure an effective balance between legislative action by member states and by the European Union. I do not agree with the noble Lord, Lord Howell, that the principle is too weak. However, I agree that it needs to be properly applied. It must be properly implemented. It would then ensure that the European Union acts only if the objectives of the proposed action cannot be met by member states and can be better achieved by the European Union.

My noble friend Lord Harrison and the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, gave us a clear explanation of what could and should be done at the different layers of European governance—at national and regional level. As my noble friend Lord Haskel pointed out, subsidiarity also has a practical consequence for the functioning of the single market. I fully concur with his view that we need subsidiarity that also encourages the kind of localism that he described.

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, that the inclusion of an important principle in the constitutional treaty should not tarnish that principle. I especially welcome the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Howell, today and hope that we can build on what he said and have some sort of cross-party agreement about how to take forward the important principle of subsidiarity and implement it. The Government are giving active consideration to implementing the spirit of the subsidiarity protocol. As my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said in the House of Commons on 6 June, subsidiarity is a long-standing concern and one that we will pursue. We also co-hosted the conference in The Hague mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell. The presidency conclusions will point the way forward. The Foreign Secretary has written to the Austrian Foreign Minister, encouraging the incoming presidency to take all those issues forward.

I certainly agree with the noble Lord, Lord Bowness, that the excellent initiative taken by COSAC should not be seen as the introduction of the treaty by the back door. It is pure common sense. My noble friend Lord Woolmer advised us of the new challenges that we would have to meet to implement an effective system. We need to discuss those issues much further.

Naturally, the Government welcome the committee report and the debate in your Lordships' House today. The thorough investigation and research that went into the report is invaluable. We certainly share your Lordships' hope that the agreement of the treaty text itself has provided, and will provide, a great stimulus to more effective scrutiny by all national parliaments.
 
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We believe that, whether or not the treaty comes into force, member state parliaments should play a stronger role in ensuring the implementation of the principle of subsidiarity in order to achieve the right balance between action at regional, national and EU levels, and to help connect citizens with European decision making. It is essential to create a culture of co-operation between EU institutions and national parliaments and, as the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, suggested, clearly desirable to have an exchange of information between national parliaments.

We have repeatedly made clear that we see the treaty as a sensible set of rules for an enlarged EU. But we have been equally clear that, following the French and Dutch "No" votes, it would not be sensible to set aside parliamentary time for a Bill to prepare for a UK referendum. The June European Council called for a period of reflection and for a broad debate. Your Lordships' report makes a thorough and constructive contribution to that debate. Other elements that were included within the draft constitutional treaty must be a part of that debate.

We welcomed the suggestion from COSAC, under the presidency of the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, that those national parliaments wishing to participate should conduct a subsidiarity and proportionality check on a forthcoming EU legislative proposal, or proposals, on the basis of their role as recognised in the current treaties. The constitutional treaty text recognised that national parliaments may decide to consult regional parliaments with legislative powers. That seems a sensible way forward. As a Welsh Peer who has taken a keen interest in the views of both the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament, I know that it is particularly important for those bodies and for the people that they represent.

We welcome the initiative of your Lordships' Select Committee on the European Union to invite input from sister committees in the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly and, in due course, it is to be hoped, from the Northern Ireland Assembly. Yet we appreciate that arrangements for consultation with devolved assemblies should be left to each member state.

In order to stimulate discussion on the scrutiny of subsidiarity the UK presidency co-hosted with the Dutch a "Sharing Power in Europe" conference in The Hague on 17 November. That was a small but important achievement of our presidency, because its consequences are potentially far-reaching. The conference recognised the need for a genuine partnership between the EU institutions, member states and their parliaments to strengthen democratic accountability and transparency while helping to build popular confidence in the way that power is shared in Europe. In response to the noble Lord, Lord Howell of Guildford, we would indeed also like to see a closer relationship between parliaments outside the European Union. However, that relationship would be quite different because we do not share membership of the European Union with those parliaments.
 
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The conference raised a number of ideas for greater partnership within the framework of the current treaties and we are grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Grenfell, for his contribution as its co-chairman. The conference encouraged member state parliaments, first, to develop their scrutiny role to ensure democratic debate at an early stage of the EU's multi-annual and annual programmes, consultation documents, road maps and legislative proposals. It encouraged them, secondly, to provide the European institutions with an early indication of their perspectives on where member states should take action, and where action should be taken at an EU level; and, thirdly, to participate in the efforts of COSAC to support the scrutiny work of national parliaments.

As your Lordships will agree, the democratic life of Europe revolves to a great extent around national and regional parliaments. We believe that the key to improving implementation of subsidiarity will be to get national parliaments and regional bodies more directly involved at an earlier stage.

National governments need to engage with parliaments more closely on European regulation and, in turn, parliaments need to be better equipped to get involved in policy discussions within the European Union. As your Lordships noted, in many cases legislation coming out of the Commission is already well advanced before national parliaments start to examine it. Sir Digby Jones, Director-General of the CBI, drew attention to the importance of national scrutiny of EU legislation in a report in April 2005. He highlighted the potentially significant impact of EU legislation on UK business and suggested that Parliament should engage early and proactively in influencing the development of the thinking of policymakers in Brussels rather than considering formal legislative proposals at a stage when many minds have already been made up and compromises negotiated. This is, I know, an important factor behind current thinking on reform of the scrutiny system.

It is also clear that trades unions and civil society would agree that early and proactive engagement by Parliament is essential. It would mark a welcome step forward if Parliament were to debate the EU's annual and multi-annual work programmes. As an eternal optimist, I believe that this might also assist in stimulating media interest. Currently, our regional and national media pay little attention to the debate on EU legislation until it is too late. This is a matter of shared frustration for many noble Lords taking part in the debate. It leads to ill-informed press coverage of the EU and an ill-informed society. Early debate on European proposals in regional and national parliaments should help to ensure early and informed public debate, generating wider public awareness. This in turn would provide the institutions of the EU with early warning of local or national sensitivities.

I turn to the questions raised on the transmission of documents. We believe that it is important for national parliaments to receive as soon as possible draft legislative proposals and substantive amendments,
 
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together with the relevant justifications. In the electronic age, it is difficult to see where the problem lies. I understand that an agreement must be reached between the Commission, the Council and member states about the logistics, but I am sure that any difficulties must be surmounted in the not too distant future.

In respect of the European institutions, the Commission is already strengthening its consideration of subsidiarity and proportionality of legislative initiatives. I note the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Neill. However, there has been a growing understanding of the importance of subsidiarity in the European institutions, despite the examples he cited. This understanding is essential and is being both encouraged and enhanced by the growing interaction between civil servants of national governments and the European civil service. I believe it is also true to say that since the accession of the Nordic countries to the European Union, the principle of subsidiarity is much more widely understood, thanks to the participation of those countries in the European institutions. We hope that the Council and the European Parliament will also examine the subsidiarity and proportionality of legislative initiatives at an early stage. My noble friend Lord Harrison was right to remind us of the role of MEPs, individuals in the Commission and UKRep. I can testify that all these groups and the institutions are much more open than most people either understand or choose to believe. They are also extremely well informed about future policies while they are still in the gestation period.

All partners need to ensure proper implementation of the existing arrangements for applying subsidiarity, including the preparation of justifications for legislative proposals and amendments. I have noted the comments made by the noble Lords, Lord Howell, Lord Grenfell and Lord Dykes, on the Government's response to the section in the report concerned with Article 8. It is difficult to imagine a situation in which the Government would not want actively to take forward a representative request from the UK Parliament. However, I do not want to be sidetracked into a legal discussion when it is important for us to focus instead on what we can do within the current treaties to increase the role of Parliament in implementing the principle of subsidiarity. I note the disquiet expressed by noble Lords and I will see whether I can provide them with a more comprehensive answer in due course.

In conclusion, the Government welcome the committee's 14th and 15th reports on strengthening national parliamentary scrutiny of the EU and this debate. We believe that, irrespective of the future of the constitutional treaty, it is important for national parliaments to be involved in EU legislation more directly and at an earlier stage. As a number of noble Lords have suggested, it is important to get more people involved in the European Union, to stimulate their interest and to engage them in dialogue about the actions necessary at local, regional and national levels.
 
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There are a number of things that the Government and Parliament can—and must—do together to make European politics and policies more accessible.

Three things come to mind and we have been actively pursuing them throughout our presidency. First, we need to improve European regulation. Secondly, we need to increase transparency. The Government are working in the Council and its working groups to achieve this at the earliest opportunity. Thirdly, and this is the focus of the debate, we need to implement the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality.

As our enlarging European Union changes and responds to the opportunities and challenges of globalisation, the principle of subsidiarity assumes greater importance. People must have confidence that the principle is being implemented and that decisions are being taken at the appropriate regional, national or European level as close to the citizen as possible. That is common sense. It is also good governance. Proper and effective scrutiny is not only the best means of ensuring subsidiarity, it is a means of increasing transparency and nurturing trust. As has been widely agreed today, national parliaments are key to the scrutiny of subsidiarity and I am confident that the European committee will play a vital role in the further deliberations on this issue, in the COSAC initiative and in the future scrutiny of the implementation of the principle of subsidiarity.

Finally, as the noble Lord, Lord Dykes, noted, there is indeed a bright future if the institutions of the European Union and national parliaments work more closely together.

6.56 pm

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