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Lord Goldsmith: My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord thus far. It will be highly desirable in the case management hearings that will increasingly take place for the trial judge to play an active role in trying to identify the issues. That goes for non-scientific and scientific issues. I agree with him that one way of doing that will be for the judge on the scientific side to invite defence and prosecution to answer the sort of questions that he has identified. At the end of the day, it will have to be for the jury and not the judge to decide whether the scientific evidence is valid.

Earl Ferrers: My Lords, does the noble Baroness the Leader of the House agree that supplementary questions ought not to be read?

The Lord President of the Council (Baroness Amos): My Lords, I totally agree. A number of individuals in the House this afternoon have been guilty of that.

Armed Forces: Joint Strike Fighter

2.56 pm

Lord Astor of Hever asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, in the light of the United States Government's refusal to guarantee full access and participation for the United Kingdom in the Joint Strike Fighter programme, they will now constitute a sufficiently funded integrated project team to reopen and take forward studies on a marine variant of the Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Drayson): My Lords, before answering, I regret to inform the House that this morning we received notice of a road traffic accident in southern Afghanistan resulting in the fatality of one UK soldier and the minor injury of one other UK
 
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soldier. It is not thought that enemy action was involved. It would not be appropriate to comment further until the next of kin have been informed. Our thoughts are with the families.

Following my visit to Washington earlier this month to discuss the JSF programme, I remain optimistic that we will achieve the appropriate operational sovereignty that we require. I assure the House that the necessary actions have been and will continue to be undertaken to ensure that we have the necessary contingency plans for the JSF project. I am sure that the House will understand that I cannot go into the detail of what our contingency plans are.

Lord Astor of Hever: My Lords, we on these Benches send our condolences to the family of the soldier killed.

Clearly, the Government must have a well defined and wholly workable plan B even if the precise details are withheld for the time being. Can the Minister deny reports that the MoD is considering the Rafale, especially given the problems that the French are experiencing with it? Can he give a guarantee that there is no intention to share JSF technology with European countries? The US are concerned that this could result in some technology leakage to the Chinese.

Lord Drayson: My Lords, with regard to the second part of the noble Lord's question, I assure the House that we have all necessary safeguards in place to make sure that there is no leakage of information transferred to us as part of the JSF or any other programme. As regards the first part of his question, I am not prepared to go into the details of our contingency plans.

Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean: My Lords, as the former Minister who originally signed the JSF agreement which provided for the transfer of technology, can I ask the Minister to confirm that the current position arises not from a lack of commitment on the part of the United States over transfer of technology but rather from the complicated process which is now engaged upon and which causes considerable difficulty for industry and the Government? Can he assure us that this is being dealt with as a matter of urgency to restore confidence in a project which should be enormously worth while to the United Kingdom?

Lord Drayson: My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that this matter is of the highest importance to the relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom. We have had three meetings in the past 10 days with the Administration on this subject. It is not a problem related to a lack of will on either part. My noble friend is absolutely right; it is a complex process. None the less, the pace at which the threats change these days requires us to have a more fluid process. That is what we aim to achieve.

Lord Garden: My Lords, from these Benches we add our condolences to the family of the soldier who was, so sadly, killed. I also add our welcome to the Minister's tough negotiating position on this
 
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important issue. Although I understand that he cannot discuss the detail of the contingency plans, can he assure us that the Government will look for cost-effectiveness, risk reduction and delivery date? That means that all practical options need to be looked at, which must include an upgrade to the Harrier, the possibility of a Rafale M or a new variant to the Eurofighter.

Lord Drayson: My Lords, I am happy to assure the House that all options have been looked at throughout the JSF programme and that, as we take forward our contingency plans, we continue to take into account value for money, cost-effectiveness and in-service date.

Lord Campbell of Alloway: My Lords, is it not of the essence of this project that compatible technology must be shared with us?

Lord Drayson: Yes, my Lords, I absolutely agree. It is very important that we have the capability to fight with this aircraft, to maintain it and to upgrade it through its life. It will be a central plank of our strategic defence posture as part of carrier strike. It is essential that we have this technology transfer. We will not be able to buy the aircraft if we do not have it.

Lord Elton: My Lords, can the Minister assure the House that at present we have sufficient and appropriate aircraft to defend our fleets wherever they are at sea? For how long will that be the case if this agreement is not reached?

Lord Drayson: My Lords, I can assure the House that we have the necessary protection for our fleet today and that we will ensure that it has the protection that it needs in future.

Lord Lyell: My Lords, can the Minister confirm what I think I heard him say to the noble Lord, Lord Garden, referring to the Harrier? I understand that the GR 7/9 variety is being developed for marine and other such mixed operations. Can the Minister confirm that that is still in the framework and is not excluded from the contingency plans that he mentioned?

Lord Drayson: My Lords, I am sure that the House will understand that it is not in the British interest for us to go into detail about the specifics of our contingency plans. The Joint Strike Fighter programme is our clear preferred option—our plan A—but I am happy to assure the House that the contingency plans that are needed to maintain our plan B are in place.

Business

3.02 pm

The Lord President of the Council (Baroness Amos): My Lords, with the leave of the House, following the Third Reading of the Compensation Bill, my noble
 
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friend Lord Triesman will repeat a Statement being made in another place on the European Council. Afterwards, my noble friend Lady Andrews will repeat a Statement entitled, "Council Tax 2006–07". Finally, my noble friend Lord Bach will then repeat a Statement concerning the Rural Payments Agency.

Childcare Bill

The Lord President of the Council (Baroness Amos): My Lords, I beg to move the Motion standing in the name of my noble friend Lord Adonis on the Order Paper.

Moved, That it be an instruction to the Grand Committee to which the Childcare Bill has been committed that they consider the Bill in the following order:

Clauses 1 to 48, Schedule 1, Clauses 49 to 103, Schedules 2 and 3, Clauses 104 to 111.—(Baroness Amos.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

Work and Families Bill

Lord McKenzie of Luton: My Lords, I beg to move the Motion standing in the name of my noble friend Lord Sainsbury on the Order Paper.

Moved, That the amendments for the Report stage be marshalled and considered in the following order:

Clauses 1 to 11, Schedule 1, Clauses 12 to 15, Schedule 2, Clauses 16 to 20.—(Lord McKenzie of Luton.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

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