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Lord Dixon-Smith: My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend and to the noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer, for their support. If the noble Lord, Lord Chorley, will forgive me for putting it this way, he could perfectly well support me. There is absolutely no problem in my mind for Natural England to have to make a judgment on the siting of a wind farm in an area of outstanding natural beauty and on the risk of global warming. It is a perfectly proper judgment to make. If Natural England does not feel that it is up to the task, and if the Minister were to deny that it was up to that task, then frankly we have all failed. So I hear what the noble Lord,
27 Mar 2006 : Column 549
Lord Chorley, says, but, with the greatest deference, it would be perfectly reasonable for that sort of judgment to be made. Somebody will have to make it. If Natural England is properly to care for the countryside, in its widest context, then it seems to me that it is a proper judgment that it has to make.
The Minister made all sorts of statements about the importance of this subject in the work of Natural England. Of course, I entirely accept that Natural England will not be an international player in this matter, but it will be a serious player in all countryside affairs. There will not be one bit of the countryside in the whole of our United Kingdom that will not be affected in some way—maybe sometimes beneficially, but in other cases adversely—by this subject. The Minister has said so. Curiously enough, I understand his reluctance to see this subject mentioned in this clause, but I do not accept his judgment. I think his judgment is wrong. The amendment should be in. The subject is sufficiently important that we ought to put it there. Therefore we should test the opinion of the House.
3.23 pm
On Question, Whether the said amendment (No. 1) shall be agreed to?
*Their Lordships divided: Contents, 99; Not-Contents, 143.
Addington, L.
Ampthill, L.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Avebury, L.
Barker, B.
Biffen, L.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Bradshaw, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Byford, B.
Chidgey, L.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Cumberlege, B.
De Mauley, L.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L. [Teller]
D'Souza, B.
Dykes, L.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elles, B.
Elton, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Fearn, L.
Ferrers, E.
Fowler, L.
Garden, L.
Geddes, L.
Goodhart, L.
Goodlad, L.
Hanham, B.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Hooson, L.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Kalms, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
Kirkwood of Kirkhope, L.
Laing of Dunphail, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Moore of Lower Marsh, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Naseby, L.
Newby, L.
Noakes, B.
Northover, B.
O'Cathain, B.
Palmer, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Rawlings, B.
Redesdale, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Shephard of Northwold, B.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Swinfen, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Waddington, L.
Wakeham, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Winchester, Bp.
Windlesham, L.
Acton, L.
Adonis, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Amos, B. [Lord President.]
Anderson of Swansea, L.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Bach, L.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Billingham, B.
Bilston, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corston, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crawley, B.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Drayson, L.
Dubs, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falconer of Thoroton, L. [Lord Chancellor.]
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Foulkes of Cumnock, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Giddens, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goudie, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayman, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Jones, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kinnock, L.
Laird, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
McDonagh, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mar, C.
Marsh, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Moonie, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Moser, L.
Nicol, B.
O'Neill of Bengarve, B.
O'Neill of Clackmannan, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Peston, L.
Prys-Davies, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rooker, L.
Rosser, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sawyer, L.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Slim, V.
Snape, L.
Soley, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Bolton, B.
Temple-Morris, L.
Tenby, V.
Tomlinson, L.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turnbull, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
[*See col. 564]
Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.
27 Mar 2006 : Column 551
3.33 pm
Lord Bach moved Amendment No. 2:
"( ) The purpose in subsection (2)(e) may, in particular, be carried out by working with local communities."
The noble Lord said: My Lords, this amendment is our response to the debate on Report on an amendment which would have made rural communities a focus of Natural England's efforts to promote social and economic well-being through the management of the natural environment. We made it clear on Report that we could not accept sole reference to rural communities because Natural England has an important role in bringing the benefits of a healthy, well managed and accessible natural environment to urban communities as well. However, we agreed to look into it and, if we could find acceptable wording, bring back a government amendment at Third Reading. This is it and I am grateful to the noble Baroness for having raised this issue on previous occasions. The amendment makes it clear that Natural England may work with local communities—both urban and rural—to secure social and economic benefits through management of the natural environment. I beg to move.
Baroness Byford: My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister. We have had quite a few discussions on this issue both within and outside the Chamber and I am glad that the Minister and the Government have managed to find a form of words. While obviously the amendment does not refer specifically to rural areas, we appreciate that the Bill also covers urban areas. We welcome the amendment.
On Question, amendment agreed to.
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