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The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Fookes): There is a Division in the Chamber. The Committee stands adjourned for 10 minutes.
[The Sitting was suspended for a Division in the House from 7.09 to 7.19 pm.]
Lord Adonis: I was just finishing as the bell rang. I assume that the Committee will not wish me to rehearse all the lengthy arguments and points that I was making.
In conclusion, the role of local authorities under the Bill will be to facilitate the childcare market so that it meets parents' needs. They will not be able to fulfil that duty without engaging the private and voluntary sectors in an integral way. The Bill's provisions seek to strike a balance between giving local authorities the powers and freedoms they need to act in the best interests of their local area while requiring them to support and foster a diverse market that allows maximum choice and flexibility for parents. On that basis, I commend these provisions to the Committee.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford: I am grateful to the Minister for his explanation on these amendments. So
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far as the amendments to which I spoke are concerned—Amendments Nos. 38 and 40 relating to the position of maintained schools—we are reassured by what he said. It is amazing how quickly one forgets what was in a Bill one worked on, and I have to say that I did not remember the specific parts of the 2002 Bill. It was good to get reassurances from the Minister and we accept his reassurances on the position of maintained schools within the diversity of provision. We support him in relation to building collaboration and partnerships between different parts of the sector. We also support the concept of the extended school.
I am a little less happy about his answer to Amendment No. 37, partly because it seems to me that the wording of the Bill is extremely awkward and we need a better explanation of what "appropriate" might mean. I understand the point he made about diversity and the different types of provision that one might be looking for. I will read what he had to say very carefully and we may come back to this on Report.
The Earl of Listowel: This debate emphasised to me the heavy responsibility we are placing on local authorities to manage these markets. For the sake of critical thinking, I shall say that the presumption that diversity of provider is a good thing is not held by everybody, as the Minister will be aware. Dr Rolfe wrote an article on recruitment and retention in the early years childcare workforce. She expressed concern about the difficulties in retention and the higher turnover in the private sector. One sees that private prisons are good at reforming archaic practices in the Prison Officers' Association, but they tend to have significantly higher turnover rates. This is an issue for children in early years settings, where we want stability. I understand that there is some evidence that the maintained sector tends to have higher qualified staff and is more resilient to economic pressures, not being so prone to reduce quality.
Professor Moss of the Institute of Education produced a paper for the Daycare Trust in which he pushed for a state-run childcare system. I know that will horrify many noble Lords, but if the Minister could give me a note on why diversity is so important, it would be helpful.
Lord Adonis: I will happily do that. I notice that the two professors who have been quoted in this debate take diametrically opposing views, which goes to show that professors never agree.
Baroness Morris of Bolton: I think I will take the views of my professor any day.
There have been no weak answers from the Minister in this Committee, and he scores 10 out of 10 for a robust and full answer. I share the view of the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, that the Minister has answered many of our concerns. I am particularly pleased that he feels that there is an avenue for natural justice if providers feel that they have had a raw deal. But I also agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, that unless the word "appropriate" is addressed, it will cause
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problems further down the line. Just as there are differences among academics about whether there should be diversity of provision or nationalisation of childcare, there will be differences in what local authorities think is appropriate because of the political complexities of some of them. This has to be nailed down.
I was very pleased to hear that the maintained sector is covered, and cannot go off and do whatever it fancies without the local authority having some idea of how it fits in with other provision, and that there is a duty upon local authorities to seek out private and voluntary organisations. I have one question and I do not expect the Minister to answer it now, unless he can. Would voluntary and private providers run childcare in the way they think it should be provided or would it come under the head and governors of the school?
Lord Adonis: Perhaps I may write to the noble Baroness about the precise arrangements. As I understand it, those responsible for the provision, whether they are the governors of the children's centre or of the school, would act as the commissioner. They may seek to make direct provision themselves, in which case they would consult on proposals to do so, or they could commission. To that extent, my understanding is that they would set out the terms on which the childcare is provided, which would be the appropriate way forward. They would seek to do so on
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a collaborative basis with private, voluntary and independent providers in that area who have an offer to make.
Baroness Morris of Bolton: I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendments Nos. 37 to 39 not moved.]
Clause 9 [Arrangements between local authority and childcare providers]:
Clause 11 [Duty to assess childcare provision]:
[Amendments Nos. 41 to 46 not moved.]
[Amendment No. 47 had been withdrawn from the Marshalled List.]
Baroness Crawley: This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees: The Committee stands adjourned until Thursday 4 May at 2 pm.
The Committee adjourned at half past seven o'clock.
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Written Statements
Wednesday 26 April 2006
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Armed Forces: Defence Medical Information Capability Programme
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Drayson): My honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Don Touhig) has made the following Written Ministerial Statement.
I am pleased to be able to announce that a contract has been placed today with Logica CMG for the implementation of the information system component of DMICP. DMICP will for the first time provide a completely automated, integrated health record for all members of the Armed Forces. It will bring better access to patient records and improve the management of patients under treatment, leading to more successful treatment, higher health standards and more personnel fit-for-task. It will also enable the Ministry of Defence to improve its understanding of the health status of the Armed Forces and generate more comprehensive force readiness information. It will enable the Defence Medical Services to meet planned statutory clinical governance standards.
The system will be fully compatible with the NHS Connecting for Health programme and will therefore lead to much better communications between the Defence Medical Services and the NHS, which is the secondary care provider to the Armed Forces in the UK. The system will be introduced progressively between now and 2010; all Armed Forces medical and dental centres in the UK and in our permanent overseas bases should be equipped with the system by early 2008.
I regard DMICP as the most important single component of the Defence Health Change programme and believe that it will bring a step-change in the effectiveness of the Defence Medical Services. The improved links with the NHS will significantly improve the way in which the two organisations work with each other and bring significant benefits to patients.
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