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Lord Adonis moved Amendment No. 18:
"(2) Schedule (Repeals) contains repeals."
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Lord Adonis moved Amendment No. 19:
On Question, amendment agreed to.
Baroness Walmsley moved Amendment No. 20:
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I intend to be extremely brief. The Government know exactly why I have tabled this amendment again: it is a vehicle to give the Minister the opportunity to tell me what he intends to do about it.
The intention behind my amendment is to line up the vulnerable adults part of Schedule 2 with the children's part, having in mind that certain kinds of adult pornography would not necessarily indicate that there should be an area of concern. Some kinds of pornography, however, may well indicate an area of concern for somebody working with children. The IBB should be given the opportunity to decide which is which. I beg to move.
Baroness Buscombe: My Lords, I support the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley,
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which I supported on Report. The amendment points out an inconsistency in the Bill, which would see the definition of inappropriate behaviour to a child relating to child pornography, but not other forms of pornography. The omission is clear.
The noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, also supported the amendment, and I was heartened to hear the Minister's response on Report, which was that this inconsistency was,
"Intensive conversations are taking place between departments on this issue. If the noble Baroness will permit me, I would like to return with an appropriate amendment in this area at Third Reading".—[Official Report, 24/05/06; col. 834.]
As there is no new amendment from the Minister, I support that of the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley.
Baroness Howarth of Breckland: My Lords, I find it extraordinary that we have not had some movement on this. My experience is mainly in the field of children, and I know a great deal more about child pornography than I do about adult pornography. I do, however, know that these are images of people being abused. The abuse of vulnerable adults in this way is equal, in emotional damage caused, to the abuse of children when you know that your image, in a sexual pose, is being flashed around the internet.
Some of us might wish to, but this is not about dealing with pornography in the broadest sense. It is about protecting vulnerable adults who may find their images being used in pornography.
Lord Adonis: My Lords, let me be clear that this is another instance where your Lordships have identified a straightforward anomaly in the Bill. It is not that we have not moved; we have moved. It is that parliamentary counsel have not yet been able to alight on the precise words which would enable me to deal with this anomaly in an entirely satisfactory way.
However, I can put on record that the Government will introduce an amendment during the Bill's passage through another House, to achieve the intended effect of reconciling the treatment of pornography for both adults' and children's workforces without reducing the protection provided to either group. The exact wording will be established by parliamentary counsel, and will involve looking at both children's and adults' provisions, to ensure that we cover all the situations we would wish in reconciling provisions, to meet precisely the points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth. With this reassurance, I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, will feel able to withdraw the amendment.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister and other Members of your Lordships' House for their support. I hope that he will bear in mind that the sort of pornography we are talking about—not just child pornography—is not just that which involves vulnerable adults. There may be other
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kinds of adult pornography, such as that which might portray adults dressed as children, which the IBB might consider entirely inappropriate. I hope parliamentary counsel will be able to cover those in the wording that it comes up with.
I am pleased that there has been movement, however, and look forward to seeing the Government's amendment when the Bill comes to another place. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Adonis moved Amendments Nos. 21 to 24:
"(4A) For the purpose of deciding under this Schedule whether or not a person is included in a barred list IBB must not take account of relevant police information if the chief officer of the relevant police force thinks that it would not be in the interests of the prevention or detection of crime to disclose the information to the person.
(4B) In sub-paragraph (4A) relevant police information is information which falls within sub-paragraph (3), whether it is obtained by IBB in pursuance of sub-paragraph (1)(c) or paragraph 19(2)."
Page 42, line 21, after "child" insert "before the commencement of section 2."
Page 42, line 28, at end insert—
"(5) For the purpose of considering whether the criteria apply to an individual, the Secretary of State must, from time to time, examine records of convictions or cautions held for the use of police forces generally.
(6) Sub-paragraph (5) does not apply to records of convictions or cautions relating to offences committed before such date as is prescribed."
On Question, amendments agreed to.
Schedule 3 [Regulated Activity]:
Lord Adonis moved Amendments Nos. 25 to 29:
"(3A) Each of the following, if carried out in England, is a regulated activity relating to children (without prejudice to whether it would be a regulated activity under the preceding provisions of this paragraph)—
(a) providing early years childminding in respect of which a requirement to register arises by section 33(1) of the Childcare Act 2006 (requirement to register);
(b) providing later years childminding in respect of which a requirement to register arises by section 52(1) of that Act (requirement to register);
(c) providing early years childminding or later years childminding, if it is provided by a person who is registered by virtue of section 62(1) of that Act (voluntary registration of childminders);
(d) providing later years childminding for a child who has attained the age of eight, if a requirement to register would arise in respect of that provision by section 52(1) of that Act if the child had not attained that age.
(3B) Any expression used both in sub-paragraph (3A) and in Part 3 of the Childcare Act 2006 has the meaning given by that Act."
Page 43, line 42, leave out "part of or"
Page 43, line 45, leave out "part of or"
Page 44, line 5, after "public" insert "electronic"
Page 46, line 27, after "public" insert "electronic"
On Question, amendments agreed to.
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Lord Adonis moved Amendment No. 30:
"( ) under paragraph 1, 2, 6 or 7 of Schedule 2 to that Act (considering whether criteria prescribed for the purpose of that paragraph apply to an individual)."
On Question, amendment agreed to.
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