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Division No. 2


CONTENTS

Addington, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bowness, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carey of Clifton, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Clement-Jones, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Cotter, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Cumberlege, B.
De Mauley, L.
Denham, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dykes, L.
Elton, L.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Fowler, L.
Fritchie, B.
Glasgow, E.
Glentoran, L.
Hamilton of Epsom, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Higgins, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Inglewood, L.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Kalms, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kirkham, L.
Lee of Trafford, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Patel, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Plumb, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Redesdale, L.
Renton, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Roper, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Scott of Needham Market, B.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Tebbit, L.
Teverson, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Winchester, B.
Tope, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trimble, L.
Verma, B.
Waddington, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warnock, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Weatherill, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Acton, L.
Adonis, L.
Ahmed, L.
Amos, B. [Lord President.]
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Billingham, B.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brett, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Craig of Radley, L.
Crawley, B.
David, B.
Davidson of Glen Clova, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Drayson, L.
Dubs, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Foulkes of Cumnock, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Giddens, L.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Gould of Brookwood, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grabiner, L.
Gregson, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayman, B.
Henig, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jones, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kilclooney, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lipsey, L.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Moran, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Handsworth, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Nicol, B.
O'Neill of Clackmannan, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Paul, L.
Pendry, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prosser, B.
Quin, B.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Richard, L.
Rooker, L.
Rosser, L.
Rowlands, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sheldon, L.
Simon, V.
Soley, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Thornton, B.
Triesman, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Whitaker, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.


Resolved in the negative, and Motion disagreed to accordingly.


 
26 Jun 2006 : Column 1027
 
4.25 pm

Clause 13 [Duty to provide information, advice and training to childcare providers]:

Lord Northbourne moved Amendment No. 4:


"( ) An English local authority must, in accordance with regulations, make information, advice and training available on request to persons who provide or intend to provide on a regular basis care for a child who is a grandchild or other close relative and who is not resident with them."
 
26 Jun 2006 : Column 1028
 

The noble Lord said: My Lords, what I seek from the Government is some modest support for grandparents and other close relatives, with whom a child does not live but who regularly provide childcare for him or intend to do so. Approximately 5 million grandparents today regularly provide some childcare for their grandchild at no cost to the state. Many make big sacrifices to free themselves to do this work. Some parents contribute to the costs, some cannot.

Information, advice and training made available to grandparents could have several outcomes which would promote the Government's Every Child Matters agenda. For example, it would encourage some grandparents whose parenting skills are a bit rusty to take a refresher course. For those grandparents who sadly have never had the opportunity to learn the skills of parenting, it could break into that dreaded cycle of disadvantage and inappropriate parenting in some families. If good grandparental care is available, it is likely to reduce the demand for professional care, which is much more expensive for the state to provide.

On Report, in response to my amendments, the noble Baroness disclosed that information, advice and training to be offered to childcare providers under Clause 13(1) is to be restricted by regulations to relate only or mainly to,


"business support and sustainability and registration".—[Official Report, 12/6/06; col. 63.].

If that is correct, it is depressing. I have to say that that report in Hansard is slightly at variance with what the noble Lord said this afternoon about the intention of regulations in Clause 13(1). It is incredibly difficult to make a useful contribution to a Bill of this sort without the regulations before us. We do not know what it is all about.

Can it really be true that resources are to be diverted to giving child carers and future carers business advice but not helping them to do the job itself—the job of caring for the nation's children? However that may be, it does not affect my amendment as there is no reason that the information, advice and training given to grandparents under Clause 13(1)(a) should be governed by the same regulations as those for professional childcare. Regulations relating to Clause 13(1)(a) concerning grandparents could provide for grandparents to be given the services they need and deserve.

Concern has been expressed by the opposition parties about the possible cost of the amendment to local authorities. I believe that the amendment involves no irrevocable commitment to expenditure because the regulations could provide that all or part of the cost could be recovered from those who use the services.

The Government expressed on Report their admiration and respect for the often selfless care carried out by grandparents caring regularly for their grandchildren. The approximately 5 million grandparents who provide such care will be watching the response to this debate to see whether the Government really mean what they say. I beg to move.


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