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Division No.
Division No. 3>
CONTENTS
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Arran, E.
Astor of Hever, L.
Biffen, L.
Blaker, L.
Bowness, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Brittan of Spennithorne, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Chadlington, L.
Chalker of Wallasey, B.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L. [Teller]
Courtown, E.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Cumberlege, B.
De Mauley, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Denham, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Dundee, E.
Eccles, V.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Garel-Jones, L.
Geddes, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Goodlad, L.
Greenway, L.
Hamilton of Epsom, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg, B.
Home, E.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Inglewood, L.
James of Holland Park, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jopling, L.
Kilclooney, L.
Kimball, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lane of Horsell, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lindsay, E.
Liverpool, E.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Mar, C.
Marlesford, L.
Mawhinney, L.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Montgomery of Alamein, V.
Montrose, D.
Moore of Lower Marsh, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Murton of Lindisfarne, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
O'Cathain, B.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Palumbo, L.
Patten, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Plumb, L.
Plummer of St. Marylebone,
L.
Rawlings, B.
Reay, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Selsdon, L.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Skelmersdale, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Tebbit, L.
Thatcher, B.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trimble, L.
Trumpington, B.
Tugendhat, L.
Ullswater, V.
Verma, B.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wilcox, B.
Windlesham, L.

NOT-CONTENTS
Adams of Craigielea, B.
Addington, L.
Adonis, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alli, L.
Anderson of Swansea, L.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon, L.
Ashton of Upholland, B.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Barker, B.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Borrie, L.
Bragg, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Burnett, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Chidgey, L.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Corston, B.
Cotter, L.
David, B.
Davidson of Glen Clova, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
Dearing, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Donoughue, L.
Drayson, L.
Dubs, L.
Dykes, L.
Elder, L.
Elystan-Morgan, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L. [Teller]
Falkender, B.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Filkin, L.
Foulkes of Cumnock, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Golding, B.
Goldsmith, L.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Brookwood, L.
Grantchester, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayman, B.
Henig, B.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jones, L.
Jones of Cheltenham, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kinnock, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Kirkwood of Kirkhope, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Lee of Trafford, L.
Leitch, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Lipsey, L.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
McDonagh, B.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Moonie, L.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Handsworth, L.
Morris of Yardley, B.
Newby, L.
Northover, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quin, B.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Razzall, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rooker, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sheldon, L.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Finsbury, L.
Snape, L.
Soley, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Bolton, B.
Teverson, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomas of Winchester, B.
Thornton, B.
Tonge, B.
Tope, L.
Triesman, L.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walton of Detchant, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Young of Norwood Green, L.


Resolved in the negative, and amendment disagreed to accordingly.

 
28 Jun 2006 : Column 1230
 

5.58 pm

Lord Kingsland moved Amendment No. 36B:

Page 50, line 39, leave out subsection (3).

The noble Lord said: My Lords, Amendment No. 36B seeks to remove from the Bill Clause 92(3), which states:

"The validity of an Assembly Measure is not affected by any invalidity in the Assembly proceedings leading to its enactment".

I shall also speak to Amendments Nos. 36C, 60D and 72A. Amendment No. 36C refers to Clause 92(4), which states:

"Every Assembly Measure is to be judicially noticed".

We also seek to excise that subsection. The language of Clause 92(4) is, if not in terms then in intent, repeated in Clause 101(4) and Clause 114(7).

One thing established by the exchanges on the previous amendment is that both the Government and we, ourselves, accept that the procedure that we are considering is subordinate. If that is so, what on earth are subsections (3) and (4) of Clause 92 doing in the Bill?

It is true that the same provisions appear in both the Scottish and the Northern Irish devolution Acts—an identical provision to Clause 92(3), for example, appears in Section 28(5) of the Scotland Act 1998 and in Section 5(5) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998. But the nature of the devolution in Northern Ireland and Scotland is quite distinct from the nature of the devolution that we are entertaining in Part 3 of this Bill. It is clear from those Acts that primary legislative powers have been devolved to the Scotland and the Northern Ireland Parliaments and therefore it is appropriate that a provision like Clause 92(3) should appear in that legislation. Exactly the same common law rule applies to our own Parliament.

However, since the Government have now accepted that the legislative process under Part 3 is subordinate, surely subsections (3) and (4) of Clause 92 have no place in the proceedings of the Welsh Assembly. Because subordinate legislation is being determined in
 
28 Jun 2006 : Column 1231
 
relation to a statutory framework decided under Clause 94, procedural defects in the making of that legislation ought to be the basis for judicial intervention, as is true for all subordinate measures. These amendments reflect the logic of the Government's assertion in all our debates so far that this is subordinate legislation. I beg to move.

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