House of Lords Journal 239 (Session 2005-06)


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Tuesday 15th November 2005

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Falconer of Thoroton, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Adams of Craigielea, B.
Addington, L.
Adonis, L.
Ahmed, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anderson of Swansea, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor, V.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barber, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Bell, L.
Berkeley, L.
Best, L.
Bhatia, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Bilston, L.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Blood, B.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burlison, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Cameron of Lochbroom, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter, L.
Chan, L.
Chelmsford, Bp.
Chester, Bp.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Condon, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Corston, B.
Courtown, E.
Coventry, Bp.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cuckney, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Cunningham of Felling, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Mauley, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Dearing, L.
Deech, B.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
Drayson, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles, V.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Eden of Winton, L.
Elder, L.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fearn, L.
Feldman, L.
Fellowes, L.
Filkin, L.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Foster of Bishop Auckland, L.
Foster of Thames Bank, L.
Foulkes of Cumnock, L.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freyberg, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.

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Gavron, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Giddens, L.
Gilbert, L.
Glasgow, E.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Golding, B.
Goodlad, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Brookwood, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Grocott, L.
Guthrie of Craigiebank, L.
Hamilton of Epsom, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Hayman, B.
Henig, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooper, B.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Imbert, L.
Inge, L.
Inglewood, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Joffe, L.
Jones, L.
Jones of Cheltenham, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kalms, L.
Kennedy of The Shaws, B.
Kilclooney, L.
Kimball, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kinnock, L.
Kirkham, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Kirkwood of Kirkhope, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leicester, Bp.
Leitch, L.
Lewis of Newnham, L.
Lindsay, E.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lloyd of Berwick, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lofthouse of Pontefract, L.
Lucas, L.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Lyell of Markyate, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Maxton, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moonie, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murphy, B.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Newcastle, Bp.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Norwich, Bp.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
O’Neill of Bengarve, B.
O’Neill of Clackmannan, L.
Onslow, E.
Ouseley, L.
Oxford, Bp.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Platt of Writtle, B.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quirk, L.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Richard, L.
Richardson of Calow, B.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Roper, L.
Rosser, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Saatchi, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Salisbury, Bp.
Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.

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Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sandwich, E.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selkirk of Douglas, L.
Selsdon, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheffield, Bp.
Sheldon, L.
Shephard of Northwold, B.
Sheppard of Didgemere, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Skelmersdale, L.
Skidelsky, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Snape, L.
Soley, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Southwell and Nottingham, Bp.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Steinberg, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Stratford, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Sutherland of Houndwood, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Bolton, B.
Tebbit, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tonge, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trenchard, V.
Triesman, L.
Trumpington, B.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Tyler, L.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vincent of Coleshill, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Waldegrave of North Hill, L.
Walker of Worcester, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Wilcox, B.
Williams of Crosby, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Windlesham, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Worcester, Bp.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Hornsey, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Worcester.

1.Oath—Norman Robert Lord Foster of Thames Bank took and subscribed the oath pursuant to statute.

Judicial Business

2.Oxfordshire County Council (Respondents) v. Oxford City Council (Respondents) and another (Appellant) (2005)—
3.Oxfordshire County Council (Respondents) v. Oxford City Council (Appellants) and another (Respondent) (2005)—
4.Oxfordshire County Council (Appellants) v. Oxford City Council and another (Respondents) (2005)—

The petition of the appellants and respondents praying that the appeals be conjoined, and that they be allowed to lodge one statement and appendix, separate cases and be separately represented by counsel in respect of the three appeals, was presented and it was ordered as prayed.

5.Appeal Committee—The 54th Report from the Appeal Committee was agreed to and the following Orders were made—

Jones (Respondent) v. Whalley (Petitioner)—That leave to appeal be given; and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 29th November.

Director of Public Prosecutions (Petitioner) v. Collins (Respondent)—That leave to appeal be given; and that the petition of appeal be lodged by 29th November.

R v. Van Dongen (Petitioner) (First petition)—That leave to appeal be refused.

R v. Dica (Petitioner)—That the respondents be invited to lodge objections by 29th November.

R v. Abdroikof (Petitioner) and another—That the respondent be invited to lodge objections by 29th November.

R v. Abdroikof and another (Petitioner)—That the respondent be invited to lodge objections by 29th November.

Couwenbergh (Respondent) v. Valkova (FC) (Petitioner)—That the respondent be invited to lodge objections by 29th November.

R v. Van Dongen (Petitioner) (Second petition)—That leave to appeal be refused.

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Papers

6.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Jobseeker’s Allowance (Jobseeker Mandatory Activity) Pilot Regulations 2005, laid under the Jobseekers Act 1995, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
2.Draft Legal Aid (Northern Ireland) Order 2005, laid under the Northern Ireland Act 2000, together with an Explanatory Memorandum.
7.Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following papers were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Amendment 29 to the Territorial Army Regulations, laid under the Reserve Forces Act 1996;
2.Accounts for 2004–05 of the Industrial Organisation and Development Act 1947, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Industrial Organisation and Development Act 1947;
3.Accounts for 2004–05 of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000;
4. (i)Report and Accounts for 2004–05 of the sportscotland Lottery Fund—
(ii)Accounts for 2004–05 of the Scottish Arts Council National Lottery Distribution Fund—
 laid under the National Lottery etc. Act 1993.

Select Committee Reports

8.Merits of Statutory Instruments—The following Report from the Select Committee was made and ordered to be printed:

14th Report, on the following affirmative instrument:

Draft Healthy Start Scheme and Welfare Food (Amendment) Regulations 2005;

and on the following negative instrument:

Railways (Licensing of Railway Undertakings) Regulations 2005. (HL Paper 65)

9.European Union—The following Reports from the Select Committee were made and ordered to be printed:

Scrutiny of Subsidiarity: Follow-up Report; (15th Report—HL Paper 66)

Human Rights Proofing EU Legislation together with the Minutes of Evidence. (16th Report—HL Paper 67)

Public Business

10.Violent Crime Reduction Bill—A bill to make provision for reducing and dealing with the abuse of alcohol; to make provision about real and imitation firearms, about ammunition and about knives and other weapons; to amend the Football Spectators Act 1989 and the Football (Disorder) Act 2000; to amend the Sexual Offences Act 2003 and section 8 of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998; to amend section 23 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1969; to amend the Mobile Telephones (Re-programming) Act 2002; and for connected purposes was brought from the Commons, read a first time and ordered to be printed. (HL Bill 41)
11.Violent Crime Reduction Bill—It was ordered that the Explanatory Notes relating to the bill be printed. (HL Bill 41-EN)
12.Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill—It was moved by the Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton, on behalf of the Lord Bach, that it be an instruction to the Committee of the Whole House to which the Natural Environment and Rural Communities Bill has been committed that they consider the bill in the following order:
Clause 1
Schedule 1
Clauses 2 to 17
Schedule 2
Clauses 18 to 28
Schedule 3
Clauses 29 to 31
Schedule 4
Clauses 32 to 51
Clauses 53 to 73
Schedule 7
Clauses 74 to 80
Schedule 8
Clauses 81 and 82
Schedule 9
Clause 83
Schedule 10
Clauses 84 to 97

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Schedule 5
Clause 52
Schedule 6

Schedules 11 and 12
Clauses 98 to 101;

the motion was agreed to.

13.Regulation of Financial Services (Land Transactions) Bill—It was moved by the Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton, on behalf of the Lord McKenzie of Luton, that the order of commitment of 17th October last be discharged and that the bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House; the motion was agreed to.
14.Identity Cards Bill—The House resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed.
15.Bosnia-Herzegovina—The Lord Astor of Hever asked Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the current situation in Bosnia-Herzegovina; after debate, the question was answered by the Lord Triesman.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.

The House was resumed.

16.Identity Cards Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); the House was resumed after amendment 8.

The House was adjourned at five minutes before ten o’clock
till tomorrow, half-past two o’clock.


DIVISION

IDENTITY CARDS BILL

It was moved by the Earl of Northesk, in Clause 1, page 1, line 9, to leave out “convenient”; which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents..............15

Not-Contents..............43

CONTENTS

Anelay of St Johns, B.
Attlee, E.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Craigavon, V.
Crickhowell, L.
Dundee, E.
Fookes, B.
Luke, L. [Teller]
Mar, C.
Montrose, D.
Morris of Bolton, B. [Teller]
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
Onslow, E.
Seccombe, B.

NOT-CONTENTS

Adams of Craigielea, B.
Andrews, B.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brookman, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Crawley, B.
Cunningham of Felling, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Dubs, L.
Elder, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Foster of Bishop Auckland, L.
Gale, B.
Golding, B.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Haworth, L.
Henig, B.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Jones, L.
Leitch, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Maxton, L.
Moonie, L.
O’Neill of Bengarve, B.
Pitkeathley, B.
Rea, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Smith of Leigh, L.
Snape, L.
Stratford, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Whitaker, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.