House of Lords Journal 239 (Session 2005-06)


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Wednesday 23rd November 2005

The House met at half-past two o’clock.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Falconer of Thoroton, L.
(Lord Chancellor)

Ackner, L.
Adams of Craigielea, B.
Addington, L.
Adonis, L.
Ahmed, L.
Alderdice, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alli, L.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anderson of Swansea, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Ballyedmond, L.
Barber, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Beaumont of Whitley, L.
Berkeley, L.
Bernstein of Craigweil, L.
Bhatia, L.
Biffen, L.
Billingham, B.
Bilston, L.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bottomley of Nettlestone, B.
Bowness, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Bramall, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookeborough, V.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burlison, L.
Buscombe, B.
Byford, B.
Caithness, E.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carrington, L.
Carter, L.
Carter of Coles, L.
Chan, L.
Chandos, V.
Chorley, L.
Clark of Calton, B.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Cohen of Pimlico, B.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Corston, B.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crathorne, L.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Cumberlege, B.
Cunningham of Felling, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Dahrendorf, L.
Darcy de Knayth, B.
David, B.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Mauley, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde, B.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dixon, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dykes, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles, V.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elles, B.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Erroll, E.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Ezra, L.
Falkender, B.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Feldman, L.
Ferrers, E.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Flather, B.
Fookes, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Foster of Bishop Auckland, L.
Foulkes of Cumnock, L.
Fowler, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Garden, L.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Giddens, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Golding, B.
Goodhart, L.
Goodlad, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.

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Goschen, V.
Goudie, B.
Gould of Brookwood, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Grenfell, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Grocott, L.
Hamilton of Epsom, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hannay of Chiswick, L.
Hanningfield, L.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henley, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hogg of Cumbernauld, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Holme of Cheltenham, L.
Hooper, B.
Hope of Craighead, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Hurd of Westwell, L.
Hylton, L.
Inglewood, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
Jacobs, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jellicoe, E.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jones, L.
Jones of Cheltenham, L.
Jopling, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kilclooney, L.
Kimball, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kinnock, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Kirkwood of Kirkhope, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lang of Monkton, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leitch, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Lockwood, B.
Lucas, L.
Ludford, B.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
Lyell of Markyate, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
Macaulay of Bragar, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McDonagh, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
Mackay of Clashfern, L.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Mackie of Benshie, L.
MacLaurin of Knebworth, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mancroft, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Mason of Barnsley, L.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mawhinney, L.
Maxton, L.
Mayhew of Twysden, L.
Merlyn-Rees, L.
Methuen, L.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Miller of Hendon, B.
Mitchell, L.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monro of Langholm, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moonie, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Morris of Yardley, B.
Moser, L.
Mowbray and Stourton, L.
Moynihan, L.
Murphy, B.
Naseby, L.
Neuberger, B.
Newby, L.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicol, B.
Noakes, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
O’Neill of Clackmannan, L.
Onslow, E.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Ouseley, L.
Owen, L.
Oxburgh, L.
Palmer, L.
Parekh, L.
Park of Monmouth, B.
Parkinson, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Peel, E.
Pendry, L.
Perry of Southwark, B.
Peston, L.
Peyton of Yeovil, L.
Phillips of Sudbury, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plumb, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Ramsay of Cartvale, B.
Ramsbotham, L.
Randall of St. Budeaux, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, L.
Rennard, L.
Renton, L.
Renton of Mount Harry, L.
Richard, L.
Rix, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Roberts of Llandudno, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Rooker, L.
Rosser, L.
Rotherwick, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Russell-Johnston, L.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.

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Saltoun of Abernethy, Ly.
Sandberg, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Sawyer, L.
Scotland of Asthal, B.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.
Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shephard of Northwold, B.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Finsbury, L.
Soley, L.
Soulsby of Swaffham Prior, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Southwell and Nottingham, Bp.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Steinberg, L.
Stern, B.
Stewartby, L.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Stratford, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Bolton, B.
Tenby, V.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thornton, B.
Tomlinson, L.
Tonge, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trumpington, B.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Tyler, L.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Vincent of Coleshill, L.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Wall of New Barnet, B.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Waverley, V.
Weatherill, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Willoughby de Broke, L.
Windlesham, L.
Woolf, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Hornsey, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

PRAYERS were read by the Lord Bishop of Southwark.

1.Marquessate of Bristol in the Peerage of the United Kingdom—The Lord Chancellor reported that Frederick William Augustus Hervey had established his succession to the Marquessate of Bristol. The Clerk of the Parliaments was accordingly directed to enter the Marquess of Bristol on the register of hereditary peers maintained under Standing Order 10(5).

Judicial Business

2.Mainstream Properties Limited (Appellants) v. Young and others and another (Respondent) (England)—The appeal of Mainstream Properties Limited was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 4th January.
3.R (on the application of Clift) (FC) (Appellant) v. Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent)—
4.Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) v. Hindawi (FC) (Appellant) and another—
5.Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) v. Hindawi and another (FC) (Appellant)—

(Conjoined Appeals)—

The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 4th January or to the third sitting day after the next ensuing meeting of the House (the agents for the respondents consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

6.Appeal Committee—The following Order was made pursuant to the 49th Report:

Coudrat (Petitioner) v. Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (Respondents)—That leave to appeal be refused; that the respondents be at liberty to apply for their costs in accordance with direction 5.1(d); and, if the application is granted, that the amount thereof be certified by the Clerk of the Parliaments if not agreed between the parties.

Papers

7.Command Paper—The following paper, having been presented to the House by command of Her Majesty, was ordered to lie on the Table:

Double Taxation—Agreement between the United Kingdom and Brazil to avoid Double Taxation on the profits derived from Shipping and Air Transport.

(6698)

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8.Affirmative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House for approval by resolution and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Draft Communications Act 2003 (Maximum Penalty and Disclosure of Information) Order 2005, laid under the Communications Act 2003, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
2.Draft Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 (Amendment) Order 2005, laid under the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005, together with an Explanatory Memorandum;
3.Draft International Criminal Court (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2005, laid under the International Criminal Court Act 2001, together with an Explanatory Memorandum.
9.Negative Instruments—The following instruments were laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:
1.Local Government Pension Scheme (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2005, laid under the Superannuation Act 1972;
 (3199)
2.West Suffolk Hospitals National Health Service Trust (Transfer of Trust Property) Order 2005, laid under the National Health Service Act 1977;
 (3206)
3.Litter (Fixed Penalty Notices) Order 1991 and the Dog Fouling (Fixed Penalties) Order 1996 (Revocation) (England) Order 2005, laid under the Environmental Protection Act 1990.
 (3223)
10.Paper not subject to parliamentary proceedings—The following paper was laid before the House and ordered to lie on the Table:

Report and Accounts for 2004–05 of the Independent Police Complaints Commission, laid under the Police Reform Act 2002.

Select Committee Reports

11.Statutory Instruments—The 10th Report from the Joint Committee was made on certain statutory instruments, including the following affirmative instruments:

Draft Jobseeker’s Allowance (Jobseeker Mandatory Activity) Pilot Regulations 2005;

Draft Transport for London (Best Value) (Contracting Out of Investment and Highway Functions) Order 2005;

it was ordered that the Report be printed. (HL Paper 72)

12.Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform—The following Reports from the Select Committee were made and ordered to be printed:

7th Report, on the following bills:

Compensation Bill [HL];

Terrorism Bill;

Assisted Dying for the Terminally Ill Bill [HL];

Estate Agents (Independent Redress Scheme) Bill [HL];

Transport (Wales) Bill—Government response. (HL Paper 73)

8th Report, on the proposal for the draft Regulatory Reform (Forestry) Order 2006, and the Government response to the Committee’s 18th Report of 2004–05. (HL Paper 74)

Public Business

13.Estate Agents (Independent Redress Scheme) Bill [HL]—It was moved by the Lord Dubs that the bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House; the motion was agreed to.
14.Regulation of Financial Services (Land Transactions) Bill—The order of commitment was discharged.
15.Identity Cards Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed.
16.NHS Redress Bill [HL]—The bill was reported from the Grand Committee with amendments; it was ordered that the bill be printed as amended. (HL Bill 45)
17.Employment (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Northern Ireland) Order 2005—It was moved by the Lord Rooker that the draft Order laid before the House on 24th October be approved; after debate, the motion was agreed to.

The House was adjourned during pleasure.

The House was resumed.

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18.Identity Cards Bill—The House again resolved itself into a Committee upon the bill; an amendment was disagreed to (see division list); amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; the House was resumed after clause 3 stood part.

The House was adjourned at three minutes past ten o’clock
till tomorrow, a quarter before ten o’clock for judicial business,
eleven o’clock for public business.


DIVISION

IDENTITY CARDS BILL

It was moved by the Baroness Anelay of St Johns, in Clause 2, page 3, line 16, at end to insert:

“( )Details of any entry made in the Register must be provided to the person in respect of whom the entry is made.”;

which being objected to, the question was put thereupon, and the Committee divided:

Contents..............37

Not-Contents..............38

CONTENTS

Anelay of St Johns, B.
Attlee, E.
Blackwell, L.
Bridgeman, V. [Teller]
Brookeborough, V.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Crickhowell, L.
Dean of Harptree, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Erroll, E.
Fookes, B.
Fowler, L.
Geddes, L.
Glenarthur, L.
Griffiths of Fforestfach, L.
Lyell of Markyate, L.
Mar, C.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Montrose, D.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Northesk, E.
Norton of Louth, L.
Onslow, E.
Parkinson, L.
Renton, L.
Rogan, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sanderson of Bowden, L.
Seccombe, B. [Teller]
Stern, B.
Stoddart of Swindon, L.
Ullswater, V.
Waddington, L.
Walpole, L.

NOT-CONTENTS

Anderson of Swansea, L.
Andrews, B.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bilston, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Clark of Calton, B.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Desai, L.
Dubs, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B. [Teller]
Foster of Bishop Auckland, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Gould of Brookwood, L.
Grocott, L. [Teller]
Hart of Chilton, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jones, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Maxton, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Prosser, B.
Rosser, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Sainsbury of Turville, L.
Sewel, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Taylor of Bolton, B.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.


APPENDIX

PROCEEDINGS OF THE GRAND COMMITTEE (IN THE MOSES ROOM)

The Committee met at half-past three o’clock.

NHS Redress Bill [HL]—The bill was further considered in the Grand Committee; amendments were moved and (by leave of the Committee) withdrawn; amendments were agreed to; it was ordered that the bill be reported with amendments.

The Committee was adjourned at twenty-two minutes past six o’clock.