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Six years on from the establishment of the GLA, I still find myself explaining that the Assembly’s powers do not include any sort of veto on the Mayor. People find it counter-intuitive that those who are elected on the same electoral mandate have such a narrow role. It is little understood that the Assembly’s power to block the Mayor’s budget by a two-thirds majority means that the Mayor needs the support of only a minority of one-third of the Assembly to get his budget. I know
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The Assembly will have an interesting new role in confirmatory hearings of mayoral appointments. I understand that nine appointments are to be the subject of this initially—involving the chairs and deputy chairs of the fire and police services. I suspect that it is not at the most senior level that mayoral appointments should be scrutinised; board members apart from the chair can, individually or cumulatively, have a great deal of influence. I do not think that any mayor would be so crass as to appoint a chair whose main qualification is being a crony.
The Assembly’s main role is scrutiny. There is scope—indeed, I would say a need—for considerable development of this at local government level. I would say to my noble friend that scrutiny can be forward-looking, and effectively so. In the case of the GLA that means scrutiny of the Mayor of London, which office is the strong leader model. Strong leadership is the main “bang” in the White Paper, which is more of a whimper. The Secretary of State’s preface to the White Paper talks about “letting go” and about showing confidence in local government and local communities. It seems inconsistent that a presidential single-person model will be rammed down the throat of local government. I do know whether the Government regard the fact that there have been few referendums for the mayoral model, few of which have led to that outcome—and some are now under threat because of local discontent—as meaning that there has been a failure of the referendum process. To put it another way, is this not an expression of local will? We hear much from this Government about choice, but it is not a term that seems to be included here—or not in a wide sense, anyway.
I would like to express my gratitude to the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, who, following the short debate when the White Paper was launched, sent me research reports in response to my question about evidence underpinning her department’s policy. I agree with the passages that were kindly highlighted by her officials, which included matters such as citizens feeling that it was very difficult to influence local policy. But to take that one example, I do not believe that it is answered by putting all executive powers in a single person who cannot be removed for four years. The noble Lord, Lord Rooker, used the term “partnership” this morning. It is a term that we hear a great deal. Similarly, the imposition of partnership working is a contradiction in terms, as the essence of partnership is surely that the partners choose to go into partnership—which, in most cases, as people are sensible in the local government area, they do and will continue to do.
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My noble friend Lady Scott of Needham Market has made many of the arguments about local government reform, which we shall come back to. I suspect that she felt as frustrated as I do that we could not spend half a day each on each topic. We might compare reform of that area with reform of this Chamber. In your Lordships' House we are focusing far too much on composition and not on the role of the Chamber. In local government we are focusing on part of the constitutional arrangements—the obvious exception is the electoral system—but not at this point, or in conjunction with the forthcoming Local Government Bill, on how local government resources itself or is resourced by others. I have enough faith in my colleagues in local government to say that it is assistance not control that they would welcome. Many have worked out how to do it for themselves.
To finish, I shall quote a short passage from a book of essays on local government published by a number of Liberal Democrat colleagues. A comment is made about a Member of this House who was, until recently, the leader of a London borough, that in his,
- “typically understated way no London borough has delivered more local involvement than many councils dare dream about. And clearly it works well enough for them”.
The author goes on to say that he knows,
- “better than anyone when to keep his head down and just get on with it. By the time anyone in Whitehall notices what is going on, it’s working too well for any civil servant or rational mind to say ‘Stop! We want you to do it this way!’ This is a lesson many council leaders would do well to learn. All governments will be prescriptive about what they want us to do, but they usually hesitate before telling us how to do it. Some of the best practice in the individual contributions comes from councils and councillors who have just got on with it”.
3.08 pm
Lord Clinton-Davis: My Lords, 50 years ago I helped to establish a firm called Clintons, in which the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, has been a partner. The noble Baroness has certainly not let down the firm or the cause that she represents. I am the president of BALPA, the British Air Line Pilots Association—much, I fear, to the chagrin of my good friend, my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Hudnall.
I want to address two subjects primarily: climate change and, very briefly, airline security. Climate change was recently highlighted by the voluminous and highly relevant Stern report, commissioned, I am glad to say, by the Treasury. There can be no doubt that climate change must be central to the Government’s environmental policy. As the report has stressed, inaction is simply not an option. It is clear that largely superficial steps will fail utterly to confront this vital issue. Here I refer to the Leader of the Conservative Party’s “dog sled” initiative, and his ideas about roof turbines. I consider also that annual targets are utterly insufficient. Far better to have annual statements to Parliament that can be tested by rigorous questions and answers.
For my own part I think it tragic that, before the recent congressional elections, the Bush Administration in the United States was in a state of total denial about the deadly effects of climate change. There are also those who hold the minority view that all those who articulate an opinion on
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I am glad to say that the United Kingdom Government are not prepared to sit on their haunches. An initiative before the appropriate UN body, and also in the EU, is to be welcomed. I speak as a member of the European Community, charged, among other things, with the environment.
As regards aviation, I unreservedly support tough and enforceable emissions trading, which is enthusiastically backed by BALPA. However, that is simply not enough. Should we not be thinking of reducing, perhaps even eliminating, short-haul flights? Are people unable to reach their destinations by other, more environmentally friendly means? I am far from being able to answer these complex issues with any degree of certainty, but in my view the aviation industry must attempt to do so.
In my submission, it is appropriate to consider radical measures to confront the risk that the planet and mankind are in grave danger of irreversible catastrophe. The Foreign Secretary, Margaret Beckett, who once looked after environmental matters, said in Berlin:
“This is not just an environmental problem. It is a defence problem. It is a problem for those who deal with economics and development, conflict prevention, agriculture, finance, housing, transport, innovation, trade and health”—
in other words, it is all-consuming.
Recently, Sir Nicholas Stern put the matter in stark terms when he opined that climate change represents the biggest market failure ever, bigger than the two world wars and the depression put together. To combat it will cost a huge amount, but it is affordable, if only because a refusal to act will end up costing a whole lot more. I think he has sounded a warning note of which we should take heed.
Crucially, we have to get India and China on board. We cannot expect that to happen automatically. The two countries currently perceive that their economic advance is irrevocably linked to carbon emissions, and it is inconceivable that they will retreat from that stance unless the EU, including ourselves, is prepared to take some ameliorative action. I say that although the United Kingdom accounts for a very small proportion of the global total. I think that my noble friend said at the beginning of the debate that we account for about 2 per cent.
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It therefore follows that we must support emissions trading, technological co-operation and a marked reduction in deforestation, which is already proceeding apace, and we ought to become more conscious of what the individual can undertake. Should we not be prepared to see increased taxation on cars? Should we not seek an international agreement on levying airlines on carbon emissions produced? Should local authorities have a duty to ensure that public transport is more readily available? I fail to see how greater road building is consistent with that, and the call for a new generation of Trident missiles seems wholly out of kilter with those obligations.
Novel ideas must not be simply shelved. Elliott Morley, when an Environment Minister, called for carbon credits, and he was followed in that by the new Secretary of State for the Environment, David Miliband, who has expanded on that concept. He has called for the implementation of a pilot project. He has envisaged more environmentally sustainable trade by the supermarkets. He has addressed the value that the European Union could add to the global environmental scene by committing the entire membership to environmental protection. In my view, he was absolutely right to postulate and promote those views.
I turn briefly to airline security. Some voices, notably the chief executive of Ryanair, condemn any measures of enhanced security for airlines. I think that that is utterly wrong; indeed, it is undoubtedly an offence as far as the travelling public are concerned. On the other hand, we should listen much more assiduously to those who have firsthand experience—the pilots—that they are anxious to submit. At the moment their views are too often dismissed. Although climate change and increased airline security are significant, they represent only part of the problem that we have to face. I look forward with pleasure to the Climate Change Bill which Parliament will be considering.
3.21 pm
Lord Greaves: My Lords, like some other noble Lords I wish to speak to the local government aspects of the debate. Before I do, I shall pick up the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood, who talked about the Lake District. I endorse everything he said about the Lake District and the high fells. It is a very serious matter that the Government have to take account of.
Three weeks ago we were presented with the local government White Paper, and, like other noble Lords, I shall assume that the White Paper will heavily influence the contents of any Local Government Bill we receive. I said then, on the basis of a quick flick through, that the White Paper was full of much talk of devolution but little evidence of it. I said that it seemed to be mostly about greater central control and that in many ways it was authoritarian and centralist and would lead to greater uniformity. Since then I have had the opportunity to reconsider those remarks and to read the White Paper in detail, and I am more convinced now than I was then that what I said is true. No doubt we will have time to scrutinise exactly what the Government mean by that and whether sceptics such as myself are right or wrong.
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My noble friend Lady Scott of Needham Market, in an outstanding speech at the start of the debate, and the noble Lord, Lord Bruce-Lockhart, who made a very interesting maiden speech, both commented that we are unique in this country in the high degree of centralisation in our governmental system. We are unique also in the large size of our local authorities. On average, we have the largest local authorities in Europe, perhaps in the world, and all that this White Paper will do is make some of them even larger. It is time that people stepped back and asked why that is. The main theme that runs through the White Paper is strong leadership. The missing theme is democracy; in the local community and in the council.
Many councillors and many people in local government believe that the new arrangements since 2003 have been disastrous, and that the effect on the role of most councillors has been disastrous. What is the solution? The Government’s solution, as my noble friend said, is to go even further to concentrate power in the hands of one man or, perhaps occasionally, one woman. Having a choice of three systems that are set out in a prescriptive way is really quite ridiculous. The system to elect a cabinet en masse has not been thought through, and it will be fascinating to see how that will work. There is the system for the council to vote to have an elected mayor, with no more referendums. The people do not like mayors, therefore the council will vote to impose them on people. This is a shoddy proposal, even more so because it is a one-way change. It is made clear that you will be able to move to have a mayor, but if it does not work you will not be able to move back. This comes from a Government who claim to be devolving responsibility and decision-making. There is the suggestion of a four-year term for ordinary council leaders, which will cause enormous problems in practice, which we may have the chance to discuss.
It is not strong leadership that is needed in local authorities; it is good leadership. Sometimes you put all your eggs in one basket, and you might get a good egg, but you might also get a basket case, and the mayors who have been elected probably span that spectrum. There are excellent mayors, and there are some who are less excellent. Quality of leadership depends on a person or people more than structures. You could have one leader elected by one of these methods and the leader will be weak or stupid. Giving them a four-year term will not make them strong or wise. The experience of London has been fundamental in persuading some of the policy wonks in No. 10 to come up with these ideas, but London is a very special case indeed. To try to transpose what is happening in London—even if it is perfect and the perfect model for everyone; and I am not sure my noble friend Lady Hamwee would agree with that—and say that that should be the model for every other type of community in the rest of England is stretching it. I remind the House of the original big town boss who at the time was lauded as an example for all of us—T Dan Smith in Newcastle. Look at the problems that he got into.
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At local level, I suggest that good local leadership is not about strong macho posturing imposing tough decisions; it is about bringing people together, reconciling conflicting interests, providing a democratic forum for open decision-making, providing vision, yes, getting things done, yes, but in a way that is collective, collegiate and co-operative. The best local authorities have always been summed up by those words, which used to be at the very foundation of what the Labour Party stood for. It is astonishing that it has now moved away from that towards an authoritarian, some would say neo-fascist, idea.
The Government are concerned about councils in no overall control, but they are setting up structures that are specifically designed not to be suitable for councils in no overall control. It is possible to run very good councils indeed under no overall control, and many members of my party have had experience of that, but you do not do it by setting up structures that are specifically designed for overall control by one party.
We have the whole question of the role of councillors. Some noble Lords today have asked, “Why do people stand for council?”, “Why do people vote for councillors?”, “Why do they turn out to vote?”, “How do councillors get experience for leadership roles?”. In my experience, most people stand for the council originally because they have a fairly vague idea that they want to improve things, and they want to get things done. They particularly want to make a change in their own neighbourhoods, and they want to take part in the decision-making processes that affect all these things. They want influence, and the people, having voted, expect those councillors to have influence, especially at the most local level.
I do not think that councillors get elected to nod through an endless supply of enormous policy and strategy reports, most of them great big fat reports full of impenetrable new Labour management-speak, which have already been agreed in detail before they go to the council. The council meetings to discuss them are formal and ceremonial, but they do not in practice make decisions. In practice, the decisions have been made long before then. Any ordinary back-bench councillor will tell you that most full council meetings are a waste of time and that they have to attend to make up the numbers, just in case.
Councillors certainly do not get elected to spend hours monitoring and scrutinising decisions made months and years before. The point has been made that councillors want to be involved in making decisions about what is going to happen and do not want to spend much time trawling over the past, particularly when, out of a council of perhaps 50 people, six, seven, eight or even 10 will be on the executive, the cabinet, and be involved in making decisions, while 30 or 40 have a scrutiny role. There is a role for scrutiny in local government, as there is elsewhere, but it is a specialist role of minority interest. To suggest that it is the main function of the majority of the council is one of the main reasons why there is so much dissatisfaction among ordinary back-bench councillors in their current role.
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This White Paper is strong in talking about involving local people—“engagement” is a silly, new Labour word, but means the same thing, I think—but it is weak on new ideas about how to achieve it. It contains some established ideas, but some made me laugh. It talks about tenant management, but most local authorities are selling off their council houses, if they have not done so already, and are involved in stock transfers. In a couple of years, very few councils will have any council houses to involve their tenants in managing. It is too late.
The paper talks about neighbourhood management—the trendy idea of a couple of years ago. I am a member of Pendle Borough Council in Lancashire, where I am heavily involved in neighbourhood management. It can be successful, but it needs enormous resources. One the one hand, the Government demand “efficiency savings, efficiency savings”, which means, “bring your base levels of spending down”, while, on the other, they say “put all the spending into neighbourhood management”. You cannot do that on the cheap, as it is heavy on resources. It does work in deprived and disadvantaged areas in all sorts of ways, but costs money. A lot of the ideas in the White Paper cost money, but you cannot spend that when the budget is being pulled back year after year.
The noble Lord, Lord Harrison, made interesting remarks about the Cheshire Landscape Trust, which is one of a huge number of local organisations, groups, campaigns and schemes in which people are now involved. Wherever you go, such schemes are operating and they are part of what I believe is an upsurge of civic involvement. But what is the role of councillors in them? From my experience and that of my friends, the councillor acts as an important link between those organisations, the council and other official bodies. Yet, if you are not careful and you make the mistake of paying a subscription to one of those organisations when it is discussed at a council meeting, you have to declare an interest and leave the room, just because you have paid over a fiver to help that organisation, which you are working with anyway. That is absolute nonsense and I hope that the talk in the White Paper about planning and licensing will be extended in a commonsense way to public bodies, local campaigning bodies, local amenity bodies and the sort of body that the noble Lord, Lord Harrison, talked about. I beg his pardon for promoting him—my point is that councillors are elected. I hope that we can discuss that interesting matter.
There is a great deal to discuss in this White Paper that will, no doubt, be included in the Bill. I am not happy about it at all, although it contains some good stuff. It is a further step in this country’s withdrawal from local democracy. I hope that I am wrong but time will tell. At some stage in the future, someone in this country is going to have to reinvent and recreate local democracy. That might happen after our time but, at some time in the future, it is going to have to be done.
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3.34 pm
Lord Mackie of Benshie: My Lords, I apologise for intervening in the gap. Due to my usual incompetence, I did not get my name down in time for the debate.
I have one point to make and it concerns milk production. I was delighted to hear the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, spend a great deal of time on, and talk with a great deal of sympathy about, agriculture because recently there has been tremendous reluctance in Defra to mention the word and it has concentrated instead on a lot of other features. We have had reference to significant trouble in the milk industry, with many people leaving the business and milk supplies dropping. Excellent speeches by the noble Lords, Lord Inglewood and Lord Plumb, put the matter in its proper, important context. The noble Lord, Lord Plumb, quoted his local figures. He has to pay 79p for a litre of milk, of which the farmer receives 17p. A multiplication factor of five should allow for a certain amount of profit in between, and obviously it does.
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