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Local planning authorities will find it quite difficult to cope with yet another planning White Paper; they are still struggling with the local development frameworks in the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act. As I have said to the Minister previously, local development frameworks were meant to be in place by now, but most authorities are still using their unitary development plans because they have been unable to get the frameworks up and running. This will just add to the fairly substantial burdens on planning in recent years.

I believe that we all would accept that the Heathrow terminal 5 consultation was barely a process and caused enormous difficulty. It certainly let people have their say, but I think we would all agree that the development was held up for a long time. However, do we want to move from that situation to the new commission in this planning White Paper? It is another of the Government’s quangos. People who probably have planning at the centre of their profession will be chosen from among the wise and the good to put together commissions for major infrastructure developments.

Exactly how will this commission go about its business? What consultation will take place? The infrastructure projects will have a big impact on quite wide parts of the country, not necessarily on local communities as was the case in, for example, Stansted, where the new runway was given permission. What will be the structure for consultation? The White Paper also suggests that the commission will be able to grant powers and change legislation. What does that mean? How can a commission grant powers or change legislation, which is in the hands of Parliament—or will those powers be devolved from Parliament to the commission? Perhaps the Minister can explain exactly how that will be carried out.

Much is made in the Statement about how local people will be involved, but what will affect local areas more is the increase in permitted development powers. People in towns and cities can be badly affected by small-scale developments. Extensions encroach on people’s properties because they can be overlooked and so forth. Here I declare my interest as a member of a planning committee, and I can tell noble Lords that practically the most contested applications are those which might be described as being on the smallest scale. What protection will be given to those living next door, who are nearby or whose gardens will be affected by a small-scale decision? How will a planning committee be able to call it in or ensure that the right people are consulted?

On out-of-town shopping developments, when my right honourable friend John Gummer was Secretary of State for the Environment he introduced PPG6 to protect town centres. The Statement says that the Government have protected town centres, but in many areas where there have been out-of-town developments of large retail stores, town shopping centres have been badly affected. If shopping developments on the outskirts of towns are to be allowed, what protection will be offered to ensure that local small shops are not just driven out of existence if PPG6 is not kept?

Green belts have been protected for generations. We all know that there is a great need for housing and that in the future pressure will be put on green belts. The Minister has said that they have been protected until now, but if greater latitude is given to development and less control is exerted by local planning authorities, how will green belts continue to be safeguarded?

I have seen the White Paper, which is, again, a very large tome covering planning regulation that will require more justice than I can give it today. However, if the Minister can start by answering the questions I have asked, we might make a dent in what I think will be longer discussions.

4.03 pm

Baroness Scott of Needham Market: My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement and reiterate my concern that these Benches received a copy of it only at a very late stage, which makes it difficult to respond in a meaningful way. However, very helpfully the Secretary of State in another place has spent the whole weekend briefing the media, so we had a fairly good idea of what was to come. Before we start, it is worth reflecting that, although it is 60 years old, the existing planning regime has served us very well. Anyone who has seen development sprawl in countries where planning policies are not so rigorous would attest to the fact that our planning regime has done well. So I begin by cautioning the Minister on moving towards something that looks like a general presumption in favour of development. That would have very serious effects on how our neighbourhoods look. Indeed, sometimes the cumulative effect of lots of small changes can be to fundamentally alter the character of a neighbourhood, especially in historic towns and villages. So I would caution care in this area.

Any planning system has to mediate between competing and often contradictory influences. There will always be a number of people who are unhappy with the outcome, and the tendency will be for them to say, “The system is at fault”. The job of government and of Parliament is to rise above that and to look more strategically, not at the competing interest groups but at the balance between economic, social and environmental regeneration, a process in which the trade-offs are understood, debated and taken into account. That is how we on these Benches will judge the Government’s moves in planning.

There are two aspects to our planning system, the strategic and the site specific—development control, in other words. The majority of site-specific planning applications are fairly small and dealt with expeditiously. Some planning departments are better than others but the answer is to raise the standards of the poorly performing ones. Progress has been made since 2004, and I urge the Government to continue supporting, in particular, the small district councils where capacity clearly is an issue.

We remain concerned, as do many local authorities, about retaining the needs test when taking into account edge-of-town and out-of-town developments. In his report, Michael Lyons referred to his vision of councils as place shapers. If local shops become boarded up as a result of an out-of-town development, it may be a victory for market forces but it would be difficult for a council to then go to a community and say, “We had no choice”. If place shaping is to mean anything, that kind of choice must be retained.

I think it is agreed that the strategic side of our planning system performs less well. I have said several times in your Lordships’ House that the most significant problem has been the lack of a meaningful national framework, whether for housing, energy or transport. Therefore, in principle at least, a new decision-making process which clarifies and separates out policy and decision making is to be welcomed. Up until now, individual applications tend to be considered in isolation from each other and planning inquiries get bogged down for years because they are often the only forum for debating the overall context. Terminal 5 and Sizewell C, for example, are classic examples of where the inquiries ground on for years because they were not only discussing national aviation and national energy policy but also considering proposals for bus stops and junction layouts. We would welcome national policy frameworks for different kinds of infrastructure.

I am most concerned about the independent planning commission, on which I have questions. I hope that the Minister will respond to at least some of them today. Because of the short time that has been available to me, I am still not clear whether the decisions of the planning commission will be executive: whether it will make the final decision or whether it will simply advise the Minister. If it is to make the final decision, it is important to know whether it can be challenged, whether its meetings will be held in public and whether its documentation will be subject to the Freedom of Information Act—in other words, whether its decisions can be scrutinised by the public.

The document contains a list of thresholds of the size of project that will fall under the scope of the planning commission. To my eyes, there is an unusually large number. Can the Minister tell the House approximately how many of these projects it is envisaged the planning commission will look at each year? The proposal is for a body made up of three to five members. Clearly its capacity for dealing with these complex issues is important. I was slightly shocked and alarmed to see a proposal, at least for consultation, that some decisions could be taken by one member. We might agree that the current public inquiry system is cumbersome and lengthy, but to move from that to a system where one person makes a decision requires a leap of faith that I am not sure we on these Benches are ready to make. What changes are being made for schemes which may be large enough to be of regional significance but fall outside the framework of the new planning commission?

We can read the document, study it with great interest and look forward to further debate when we have had an opportunity to hear what the stakeholders think, but on these Benches the test will be whether any new system achieves a balance between economic development and environmental and social considerations, and still retains a feeling of genuine community engagement in the decisions which affect it. We welcome, at least, the start of the debate and what appears to be a genuinely consultative approach.

4.10 pm

Baroness Andrews: My Lords, I am grateful for the welcome that the noble Baronesses have given to the White Paper. I apologise that your Lordships have had such short notice for the Statement on the planning White Paper, and I shall explore why that was the case. I appreciate that the document is long and complicated, and I look forward to debating it in this House at greater length.

I shall start with some of the questions raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham. She is quite right that there have been many changes to the planning system in recent years; she knows that all too well. We have kept a watching brief on what has been happening with the local government frameworks and we will learn from experience. That is why we make it clear in this White Paper, just as we did in the local government White Paper, that we are looking to simplify some of the processes—for example, in the options and appraisals stage, so that it becomes proportionate and optimal when it is needed.

I and other Members of the Government have been pleased about the warm welcome that has been given to the White Paper by the Local Government Association today. In fact, it has been well received in general. The noble Lord, Lord Bruce-Lockhart, who sadly is not in his place, said:

“The White Paper offers a real opportunity to bring in a planning system which promotes economic growth and attractive environments, rewards innovation and vision and gives democratically elected local councillors the ability to create places where people can thrive”.

I think that that is an important step forward.

On the questions asked by both noble Baronesses about the structural changes involving the new commission, the point is, as the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, said, that we need national frameworks for policy-making under which decisions are made about where things are locationally proper. With the White Paper, we have for the first time an opportunity to construct a framework where the broad policies, whether on waste, water, energy or transport, can be made in full public view and challenged in the same way by public consultation. We will then go on to determine the reasons why we need the sort of infrastructure that we do.

The role of the independent planning commission will be to apply those principles of sustainability and economic viability to the specific applications that come to it. It will take these decisions itself, independently. Its task will be to ensure that the national criteria are met, particularly where they impact locally. Some aspects of planning will be locationally more specific than others and there will be an opportunity for local consultees to be involved at a very early stage with the national policy framework decision. When the application is reviewed, the process will not be as it is at present, when the policy itself is often under scrutiny and there is endless debate about why this is happening. That will have been cleared out of the way and agreed, not least because these policy statements will have to go through Parliament, so there will be a mechanism for dealing with that.

I shall speed on and discuss the consultation process. Running through the whole White Paper is a strong commitment to getting consultation right. It is essentially a three-stage process. There will be thorough consultation on the national policy statements and the sector-specific policy statements, but for the first time, when it gets to the point where the developers are being scrutinised, there will be a legal requirement on them to demonstrate that they have consulted adequately, and there will be a list of statutory consultees who will advise. Finally, the independent commission will run the inquiry as part of its process; again, there will be a rigorous opportunity for people to be involved, including an open-stage process, which we do not have at the moment. The commission will take its decisions but it will of course be subject to legal challenge in court. The Secretary of State will not have the current ministerial role—the accountable role—in making the decisions.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, asked me whether the commission will be able to grant powers and change legislation. We want any applications for major infrastructure as far as possible to have been made under a single consent. That is one of the ways of speeding things up, instead of these multiple regimes that people have to consult at the moment. The present mix of eight regimes includes, for example, compulsory purchase and changing private legislation. We will have to look at how we deal with that multiplicity of issues.

We think that there will be roughly 10 to 25 projects a year, but if only one member were to take the inquiry, the decision would be made by the board of the commission and not by a single person.

As I said in the Statement, town-centre policy has been very successful and has certainly led to a revival of our town centres. Town-centre development increased from 25 per cent in 1994 to 41 per cent in 2004. Sometimes, the needs test has had a perverse effect and deterred competition. We therefore want a better test, building on what works. I confirm to the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, that we are not changing green-belt policies, but local authorities are not ruled out from reviewing them.

Important questions about protection were raised, but the present system is perverse. It allows unattractive developments because they simply fulfil the volume requirements. It is spelt out in the consultation paper that we want to move to a system based on height, size and distance from boundary. It sets down clear rules, but in a way that makes it clear to people whether they have to apply for planning permission. We hope to take about 85,000 schemes from an annual number of 325,000 out of the system. That will certainly help to simplify matters.

I am conscious that I have been unable to answer all the questions that were asked. I shall make sure that I do so in writing. I look forward to a continuing debate on this topic.

4.17 pm

Lord Howarth of Newport: My Lords, if there is to be a free-for-all, or something like it, in home extensions and alterations, does the Minister accept that there is a danger, even a likelihood, that the cumulative damage to the quality of the built environment will be significant? Will the Government at the very least make sure that advice on good design in such developments and models of good practice from the Commission for Architecture and the Built Environment and English Heritage are made extensively available? Where conservation areas and listed buildings are in question, will the Government ensure that conservation and planning officers in local authorities are trained, advised, empowered and under a duty to ensure the appropriateness of physical change in these sensitive cases and to sustain the quality of our historic environment?

Baroness Andrews: My Lords, those are important questions. One of the reasons for making these changes is to allow planning officers to consider what is important. It is extremely important that we have tighter controls on conservation areas—listed building consents will stay in place—but that we clear away some of those things that can safely be cleared. As the White Paper is a consultation document, I am sure that design issues will be raised and that we will find ways of strengthening the advisory system, particularly in relation to the statutory consultees. However, we have already said that we will look to match materials. At the moment, there is no requirement for the same materials to be used in extensions. We could certainly improve the appearance of buildings if we ensured integrity in the materials being used. We are building on the consultative process in that and a number of different ways. I shall make sure that what my noble friend said is fed into that process.

Lord Redesdale: My Lords, the White Paper is comprehensive in certain areas. It responds especially to those who have been lobbying on microgeneration. Chapter 7.11 answers one of the main points by referring not just to small on-site renewable energy schemes, but also to decentralised renewables schemes, which is a great step forward. Will the Minister confirm that, as it is set out in legislation, microgeneration includes schemes generating up to 50 kilowatts of power rather than just very small, 1-kilowatt schemes? On large microgeneration schemes, will she also say whether guidelines will be set on issues such as whether climate change should be taken into account or whether wind turbines work? It is important that when a microgeneration scheme goes to appeal, as happened when I took a scheme for a small turbine to appeal, one should not have to argue, as I did, about whether climate change was happening or not. That should be taken as read by the planning authorities.

Baroness Andrews: My Lords, I think that I can confirm what the noble Lord has asked about, although he is much more expert than I am on these matters. The general point is that the whole paper will make it possible in different ways for microgeneration to get a more secure hold, whether in the domestic appeals system and permitted development or in encouraging local authorities to go for the renewables option. We believe that it is important to do that. In the debate on the nature of energy through the White Paper, renewables will play a very important role. A 50-kilowatt limit for the IPC will make it possible for local authorities to deal with the smaller generation issues. However, I shall write to the noble Lord about the specific point that he raised about Chapter 7.11 of the White Paper, because I would not want to mislead him.

Lord Jenkin of Roding: My Lords, like the noble Lord on the Liberal Democrat Benches, I wish to address a particular subject. It will not surprise the Minister that my point is about energy, too. I have not yet grasped the distinction between the role of the Government in setting the policy, the role of the commission in deciding how that policy will be implemented and what is then left to the local planning authority. In tomorrow’s energy White Paper, we expect the Government clearly to express their support for a programme of major investment in new generating capacity, which may include nuclear. Is the commission the body that will decide where the major developments are to take place? If it is, at that point local communities will want to have their say. I have listened extremely carefully to what the Minister said in response to earlier questions, but I have not yet gathered how that is going to be done and I would find it very helpful if the Minister would explain it.

Baroness Andrews: My Lords, I am happy to try to explain the matter even more clearly. National policy statements, such as an energy policy statement, will set out the principles on what should govern where the infrastructure goes and what infrastructure we need. Some of our papers on energy, transport, waste or water will be more locationally specific because there will be fewer choices. However, with other papers, there will be wider choices to be made and they will be more general in their description of some of those choices. The national policy frameworks will do just that: the statements will set out what the policy is and why we need the infrastructure—and in some cases they will be able to say where we need it more.

The independent commission will be the body that receives the application from the developer, so it will act as a planning commission does at the moment, looking at the merits of the locationally specific application. Local people will be able to have their say about how they will be affected not only at the stage of the national debate—and we are thinking about how we can make that happen most effectively and what mechanisms we need to ensure that people have their say at the right time and place. That is a consultation issue. It may be that for some policies it will be at the national level as well as at the level of the individual application.

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