EXAMINATION
OF WITNESSES
(QUESTIONS 20-28)
MALCOLM WICKS,
MR CHRIS
NORTH AND
MR JAMES
HUGHES
7 JUNE 2007
Q20 LORD
TREFGARNE: EIT procedures; I guess
they will be European procedures, EU procedures, or very close
to them, and it is those procedures which I think are a hurdle
rather than a barrier.
Malcolm Wicks: Yes, I think that is right and
part of the pilot exercise has to be about how we enable people
to get involved.
Q21 LORD
TREFGARNE: In the training world,
the sector skills councils perform a great role in getting EU
funding, especially for smaller firms. Can we find a similar network
of organisations, not directly concerned with training, perhaps
the RDAs?
Mr North: Perhaps I could start by confirming
that the businesses have not yet expressed overt enthusiasm, and
that is not surprising because, as the Minister said, they have
been deterred somewhat in the past from participating in framework
programmes. Framework 7 does promise to simplify and streamline
procedures considerably. Clearly, it is our wish, hope and expectation
that those new simplified procedures will translate also into
procedures for the EIT. There are important awareness-raising
activities required to deliver this new concept on the ground.
Under a framework programme there is a network of so-called national
contact points to do the hand-holding, to raise awareness among
businesses, to take them through the procedures, and there will
be a need for something similar, I would imagine, for the EIT.
An important function of the governing board of the EIT will be
indeed to market the EIT and to explain exactly how it works in
practice on the ground.
Q22 LORD
TREFGARNE: We do have organisations
in this country which help. I mentioned the EEF but more widely,
the CBI, for example, might be able to play a role, as an organisation
which would have the interests of the little firms at heart and
could guide them accordingly. We had the Small Business Bureau
giving evidence on an entirely different matter but maybe they
could help too.
Malcolm Wicks: Yes. Currently within the DTI
we are seeking to streamline our business support. We recognise
that, frankly, we have had too many initiatives and this would
be one focal point for them.
Lord Trefgarne: A "ministerial initiative"
is a sort of dread expression for small business.
Q23 BARONESS
HOWARTH OF
BRECKLAND: On a number of occasions
you and your colleagues have mentioned the board and the crucial
task it will have. You talked about it slowly being built up and
I wondered how it would be constituted. I can see that science
and research skills and business skills sometimes come together,
but not always. Will you be having, if you like, a job description,
a skill set, that you are looking forward to make sure this works?
One of my experiences of boards here and in other places is that
unless you start there, you end up with people who are interested
but who are not actually able to carry out the task.
Malcolm Wicks: Sure. I understand the importance
of that. It should be suitably able people with an interest both
in research and innovation—people like us really; maybe
we should jointly apply. Have we got there yet, Chris? There is
talk about a board of 15 people. Obviously, you have to have some
regard to the geography; not every Member State, if I can do my
arithmetic, will be on the board if it is 15. Do we know any more
at the moment?
Mr North: At the moment all I can really add
is that there is in the proposal provision for a so-called identification
committee to be set up which would be responsible for coming forward
with proposals, recommendations, to the Commission as to the appointment
of the 15 or so members of the governing board. As the Minister
has said, it is absolutely crucial that we do secure a very high-calibre
governing board which will be key to the reputation and success
of this venture. The actual procedure envisaged, I understand,
follows the model of the European Research Council from a year
or two ago.
Q24 LORD
MOSER: I have a quick question
on the Lambert review on business-university collaboration, which
is exactly what you have been describing. It would be a good title
for the centre actually. Do you think there is any possibility
of holding up a final decision and first doing a proper Lambert
type review across Europe?
Malcolm Wicks: My guess would be that different
Member States are in different places on this. The principle has
to be right, does it not, that the university, traditionally a
place for teaching and academic excellence and research, now has
a third mission, which is to make a greater economic and social
contribution to its community, maybe the nation, than previously?
I think we now have some great exemplars of this in the United
Kingdom. We indeed have a fund of some £100 million, which
we share with the Department for Education, the Higher Education
Innovation Fund, which distributes money to all universities to
encourage them to take this innovation seriously, the spin-out
companies and the rest, and of course, we need to see this across
Europe. In parts of Europe this would be a somewhat foreign idea
at the moment.
LORD MOSER:
My point, Minister, really is that there has been terrific progress
in this direction in this country, as you say. The Lambert review
had quite a lot to do with getting it all going. We did not need
a new institution to bring it about. It is just that every university
and every business is doing a bit more. I would still have preferred,
if it were my choice, for that to be the European process: a review
and then everybody does more rather than set up this EIT. Still,
I think perhaps it has gone too far.
Q25 CHAIRMAN:
Minister, you did talk earlier about the need to review the performance
of the first KICs which are set up. In a way, that was the first
stage of the Lambert review, to see what was happening and whether
it worked. Is that the kind of process you had in mind of a really
thorough analysis of the work and level of effectiveness of the
original few, if we can keep it down to a few, KICs, and then,
on the basis of that, to move forward with greater certainty for
the future?
Malcolm Wicks: Yes, absolutely and, as I indicated
earlier, given the nature of this Institute, it would be ridiculous
if we did not apply some scientific method do it. Indeed, following
what Lord Trefgarne was saying, this should not perhaps just be
about the quality of the KICs, the quality of the work, but we
should have it as a learning experience about the processes that
we are setting up, how easy or difficult it is for smaller companies
perhaps to get involved and so on. This is something we have been
pressing and I will press it further at the meeting of the Council
later this month.
Q26 LORD
WADE OF
CHORLTON: The perfect example
of what I would like to see happen out of this I saw in California,
where there was a centralised commercialisation unit attached
to all the universities, manned by highly professional people
who could deliver on behalf of a number of universities. That
sort of concept, say, on a regional basis—and I have tried
for a long time to discuss this with other universities in the
North West and see if they would merge them, but they will not
give up. Maybe as a new initiative it would be possible for us
to put in an application from the UK by bringing the universities
within a region together with the business in that area and put
forward a proposal for such a concept, which would drive forward
an awful lot more effective commercialisation than we have now
at basically university level, because it is the skills of the
people in the team that make it happen, not where it happens,
if you know what I mean.
Malcolm Wicks: I am impressed when I talk to
the universities at how people are moving towards that. As you
know, in the North West, certainly in Yorkshire, the universities
are talking to one another and they are talking to business. I
think it is a process that is moving in the right direction.
Q27 LORD
WADE OF
CHORLTON: This could just give
it that extra kick that would actually make it happen.
Malcolm Wicks: Yes. Kicks all round.
Q28 CHAIRMAN:
That is right. Mr Wicks, thank you very much for coming. If you
do feel something has been left out or you wish you had said something
which you did not have time to say, please write to us because
we want to get the full measure of the wisdom that we have in
front of us.
Malcolm Wicks: I think it might be helpful to
the Committee if we give you a series of written answers, some,
indeed, prepared earlier. We might be able to do that quite quickly.
Chairman: Thank you very much indeed for coming before
us.
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