Examination of Witnesses (Questions 140-146)
Rt Hon Margaret Hodge MBE and Mr Nigel Hickson
26 FEBRUARY 2007
Q140 Lord St John of Bletso: We have
heard several proposals today but, in wrapping up, of the proposals
tabled by the Commission, the European Parliament and the Council
Presidency, which do you consider would be the most effective?
Margaret Hodge: It is really difficult to say
one alone. I want to see the package. I think transparency is
key and we have to get that right. I am very happy with the wholesale
average retail tariff and agreement round that. We will haggle
about the level of the consumer protection tariff, but that is
fine as long as it is opt-in; opt-out would be a disaster for
us. We do want an average retail tariff as well because we want
the competition and I do want the sunset clause, in particular
because I did not get the sunrise clause. I think a bit of a punitive
tariff is not a bad stick to try to ensure that this regulation
only has to remain in place for three years.
Q141 Lord Haskel: Most of this conversation
has been about talking on the telephone. For business people sending
data back is terribly important. Are there going to be the same
sorts of problems about data roaming as there are for voice roaming?
Margaret Hodge: I do not know.
Mr Hickson: It is an issue which has been talked
about briefly within the Council and the Parliament indeed brought
up the issue. The current text we are considering in the Council
would impose a monitoring obligation on the national regulatory
authorities so that, in addition to collecting this data and looking
at the cost of voice calls they would also have to look at the
cost of SMS, text messages and data as well. Then the Commission
in a few years time might perhaps ask for this data and on the
basis of that might or might not decide that steps need to be
taken in this area as well. It is an issue which is being considered.
Q142 Lord Dykes: Do you feel for practical
purposes that it will be okay and in order for HMG to liaise with
Ofcom and Ofcom to supervise the advertising content of the announcements
to ensure transparency and so on of these changes of tariffs,
the maximum tariffs and all the rest of it, to make sure that
the companies do comply with what Ofcom wants without it being
an onerous and rigid structure. Of course these are private companies
being regulated by public sector official regulators so one has
to be careful not to overdo it, but would it be a good idea for
Ofcom to make sure that there is a proper textual framework for
the advertising content of these announcements for consumers who
will remain somewhat confused and bemused I am sure. Without them
in any way being criticised, it is a very complex field and there
will be variations on what the companies offer within the new
limits once this legislation is in place and for HMG to liaise
with Ofcom to make sure it does look satisfactory.
Margaret Hodge: Part of the regulatory duty
will be around transparency arrangements, so it has to be for
Ofcom to ensure that the operators do provide the information
in a consumer friendly way and as fully as we need to make informed
decisions. Yes, we will liaise with them.
Q143 Lord Dykes: The Government will
be liaising.
Margaret Hodge: Yes. I have very, very regular
meetings with Ofcom.
Q144 Lord Dykes: These would not be within
the ambit of public service announcements by definition but at
least there would be considerable information.
Margaret Hodge: Yes. They have that responsibility
in a range of telecommunications areas now.
Q145 Lord Mitchell: I know that data
roaming caused a degree of consternation. Let me widen it. How
about music and movies on a roaming basis? That is going to be
an increased amount of activity for mobile phones and I just wondered
where that fits in. Does it fit into data or is it in a different
category?
Margaret Hodge: The interesting thing is that
all this stuff is converging: we are going to be able to get it
on our phone; we will get it on our television; we will get it
on our computer, our laptop; wherever you want to get it you will
be able to access all the media. A discussion has just started
in the last two Councils and we have had discussions on the impact
of convergence, which is what you are really talking about, on
regulation. We are at very, very early days on that discourse
and probably if you want the UK position on that it is that we
are trying to ensure that the heavy hand of European regulation
does not again play too great a role on stifling innovation and
competition. We have to talk about it a lot.
Q146 Lord Mitchell: When you just look
at i-tunes and other types of music which people are buying on
their computers you can certainly see that being cross-border
if the pricing were right. A massive amount of activity is taking
place; it is not in its early days and it is going to happen very
quickly.
Margaret Hodge: We will all be able to receive
television on our mobiles. Some of you will have travelled to
Korea and Japan which are probably the most advanced. In fact
we have about five pilots in the UK around that. Let me give you
an instance of the sort of issue that we are discussing. We have
pretty rigorous regulation of content for our public service broadcasters.
Are you going to start having that sort of regulation of content
on images you receive through your mobile? I can tell you that
it is a can of worms, but we are just beginning to think about
it and try to think how we can get something which gives proper
protection to the consumers. There is always that balance. We
want the proper protection for the consumer whilst promoting innovation
and competition. That is probably the principle which underpins
our approach to all these issues.
Chairman: Minister, thank you very much
indeed. We are just on the hour. You have guided us through a
field of great complexity. Let us hope we confound the old adage
that the quality of political debate is in inverse proportion
to the technical complexity of the subject. The hearing is closed.
26 FEBRUARY 2007
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