| Previous Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |
What should we be doing in the mean time? We should be diagnosing, treating and counselling—three legs of a stool. Yes, we should diagnose people, and we heard from the Minister that we are doing a better job of that: it is possibly partly contributing to the rise in our knowledge of the incidence. At the same time, I again urge and stress that we will do better if we shift and bite the politically incorrect bullet of moving to opt-out testing, rather than basing voluntary testing on opt-in. I hope that the Minister will take that away and consider it.
The second leg of the stool is that once we have diagnosed we must treat. As the noble Lord, Lord Fowler, the noble Viscount, Lord Craigavon, and the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, strongly emphasised, it is not merely immoral, in my view, but just plain stupid that people who get into the country are freely diagnosed, but cannot be freely treated. Not only is that morally wrong, but in practical terms it is not a good idea—not just for the individuals, but for the community. I trust that the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, will take that away, too, and I hope that we will hear well of its consequences.
On the subject of treatment, I particularly enjoyed the contribution from the noble Lord, Lord McColl—
Baroness Crawley: My Lords, I really hesitate to interrupt the noble Lord, Lord May, because this is such an interesting lecture, but—
Lord May of Oxford: My Lords, it is a two and a half hour debate that started at 11.30.
Baroness Crawley: My Lords, we still have to keep to our times and everyone has done that. If the noble Lord would wind up, we would appreciate it.
Lord May of Oxford: My Lords, I will be very good about doing that. The noble Lord, Lord McColl, greatly widened the debate. I will have to be dragged from the Chamber before I leave out the third leg of the stool, which is that treatment must be accompanied by counselling. I would have wittered on at greater length on this as I misunderstood and thought that I had 15 minutes to close, particularly given that we have not used up our two and a half hours. I will not go on, save to say only that I particularly welcomed the detailed comments of many speakers, and the specific comments that addressed the question that there are powerful forces in the world, led by the
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1179
I wish to leave four recommendations with your Lordships. We should do a better job of treating; we should make counselling an integral part of everything that we do; we should engage charities more and give them more than the few millions of pounds that we are giving them—the charities are the most effective way of delivering much of this; and, finally, the Foreign Office should do more proactively in combating the faith-based ignorance that trumps scientific fact in trying to halt the pandemic. I beg leave to withdraw the Motion for Papers.
Motion for Papers, by leave, withdrawn.
Zimbabwe
1.53 pm
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Malloch-Brown): My Lords, with the leave of the House, I will now repeat a Statement made yesterday in the other place by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. The Statement is as follows:
“Mr Speaker, the whole world is watching events unfolding in Zimbabwe and with your permission I will make a Statement on the situation as we understand it. I hope and believe that the people of Zimbabwe will hear one message from this House: that we stand with them at this moment of opportunity and that we share their demand for a democratic future.
“For obvious reasons, the delicacy of the current situation means that I and, I am sure, all honourable Members will want to choose our words carefully, given the risk that what we say will be distorted. That does not mean that there are not some fundamental points that need to be expressed.
“I have within the last 30 minutes spoken to our ambassador in Harare. The situation is fluid. Zimbabwe’s political, civic and economic leaders are clearly engaged in intensive discussions. The full results of the parliamentary elections are still unclear. The latest tally is that 188 seats have been declared and 80 remain to be declared. The two main parties are running neck and neck. There is still no formal announcement about the key presidential election.
“Though the situation in Harare is tense, there is no suggestion of crowds massing and no reports of violence. But it is not business as usual: many schools are still closed and people are watching and waiting to see what will happen.
“Let me assure the House that through both political and official channels there has been a high degree of contact and consultation. The Prime Minister, Lord Malloch-Brown and I have been in touch with Presidents, Prime Ministers and Foreign Ministers in southern Africa and around the world. There is an international consensus that the will of the Zimbabwean people must be understood and respected.
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1180
“The people of Zimbabwe have made their choice. Outside the 9,400 polling stations, the tallies have been posted. The Zimbabwean Electoral Commission knows what those results are and has simply to announce them. The delay in announcing the outcome can only be seen as a deliberate and calculated tactic. It gives substance to the suspicion that the authorities are reluctant to accept the will of the people. They have a responsibility to do so, and Zimbabwe’s neighbours, who have borne a significant share of the burden of Zimbabwe’s collapse, have a responsibility to ensure that that occurs.
“No one in this House would want me to hand ZANU-PF a propaganda coup by endorsing one candidate or another, or by taking it on myself to announce the result. In truth, in spite of what President Mugabe would want the world to believe, the crisis in Zimbabwe has never been about personalities. It is not a bilateral dispute between British and Zimbabwean politicians or anyone else. It has always been about the policies that Robert Mugabe and his Government have chosen to follow and the terrible destruction that has been wreaked on the Zimbabwean people.
“The situation preceding these elections was shocking. The conditions for free and fair elections were not in place. The playing field was tilted heavily in favour of ZANU-PF. Up to 4 million people who had fled Zimbabwe’s crisis could not vote. In some areas, between 18 per cent and 20 per cent of those who tried to vote were frustrated by the inaccurate electoral roll. We will probably never know how many dead people on that roll cast ghost votes. But we do know that, in spite of those problems, millions of ordinary Zimbabweans still queued peacefully and voted. Now they are holding their breath: will their country reverse the spiral of decline or exacerbate it?
“The facts speak for themselves: life expectancy has halved to an average of 34, nearly 2,500 AIDS-related deaths occur per week, inflation is practically incalculable and day-to-day abuse of human rights and freedoms is commonplace.
“Britain has always supported the Zimbabwean people through the pain of their national trauma. We are the second largest bilateral donor and spent over £40 million last year on aid. Our support provided HIV treatment for more than 30,000 HIV patients and helped the World Food Programme to feed up to 3 million people—about one quarter of Zimbabwe’s population.
“We will continue with our support. We want to do more to encourage development within Zimbabwe. When there is real and positive policy change on the ground, Britain will play a full part in supporting recovery. We know that the Zimbabwean people face a massive rebuilding task. We will help them to do that with EU and international colleagues. But that can happen only when and if there is a return to real democracy and good governance in Zimbabwe.
“We will continue to do all that we can to encourage that to happen and to encourage other countries in the region to exert what influence they have over the situation in Zimbabwe. Those with
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1181
“Our ambassador and the embassy staff, both local and UK-based, are working tirelessly in difficult circumstances. They are in very close contact with a wide range of Zimbabweans and stand ready to offer consular assistance to the many British nationals in Zimbabwe.
“Many honourable Members have been tireless advocates for the people of Zimbabwe. The people of Zimbabwe have suffered for too long. Every British citizen will yearn with them for that suffering to end and for it to end now. I shall of course seek to keep the House fully informed of events and the Government’s further actions to influence them”.
Further to the Statement delivered by my right honourable friend in the other place yesterday, I would like to update the House on developments overnight. The results of 207 Assembly seats have now been announced. The final three results will be decided by by-election. The tally gives the MDC—Morgan Tsvangirai’s party—99 seats, ZANU-PF 97 seats and the remaining candidates 11 seats. There are still no results for the 60 Senate seats and no announcement has been made concerning the result of the key presidential election. More than four and a half days have passed since the polling stations closed. The Zimbabwe Electoral Commission knows the remaining results. I reiterate that it should announce them immediately, without further delay. I am placing a copy of this Statement in the Vote Office and in the Library of the House of Commons.
1.59 pm
Baroness Rawlings: My Lords, I thank the Minister for delivering the Statement today, delaying its repetition from yesterday, and for adding a brief update. I am sure that his colleagues on the justice team were grateful that further progress at the Report stage of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill was not delayed, given the enormous time pressure that the Government find themselves under.
I had hoped that events in Zimbabwe would have moved on sufficiently yesterday for much of the Minister’s Statement to be out of date, but I regret that this is not the case. The confusion that the Secretary of State spoke of yesterday has only partly been resolved. The Electoral Commission has finally announced most of the results for the 207 House of Assembly parliamentary seats, but there is still no official confirmation of the result of the presidential vote. Without this announcement, the situation grows even more dangerous. I am glad that the Secretary of State yesterday gave an assurance that the Government have been seriously considering contingency plans to ensure the safety of British citizens who could be caught up in any violence.
One thing is clear: despite ZANU-PF’s claims that the premature announcement of the results by opposition parties is “mischievous”, the delay of the official announcement is far more pernicious. So are
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1182
Zimbabwe is suffering from a grossly mismanaged economy, with inflation at an unbelievable level and 4 million people dependent on food aid. The political system is corrupted: instances of politically motivated torture doubled over the last year and harassment of opposition politicians is routine. There is an ongoing health crisis, with an estimated 1.7 million HIV/AIDS sufferers and life expectancy among the lowest in Africa. That this situation might continue is appalling. That it might get even worse and degenerate into outright and widespread violence is heartbreaking.
A comprehensive international effort will be essential should these elections follow the unfortunate example recently seen in Kenya. The Secretary of State failed to answer my right honourable friend’s questions on the Government’s preparation for either an international observer mission or an over-the-horizon humanitarian force should the worst come to the worst. I hope that the Minister will tell your Lordships how ready the African Union is to step in, should that become necessary, and what the Government would do in support. What preparations have been made for emergency aid in the event of a crisis?
We would like to be optimistic, so I turn to what the Conservative Party would like to see: a return to good governance in what used to be one of the most successful countries in Africa. Of course, even in the best of all possible worlds, Zimbabwe’s rehabilitation will not be easy. The Secretary of State yesterday spoke of the misrepresentation of our support for NGOs working to improve the situation in Zimbabwe. We should not allow our colonial past, either in Zimbabwe or in other countries in the region, to be used to obstruct our humanitarian support.
What are the Government doing to establish better understanding among Zimbabwe’s neighbours of what we seek to achieve? What progress is being made towards establishing a comprehensive international effort, under the UN, the EU or the African Union, to forge better links with NGOs in Zimbabwe? Without regional support, anything that we say in this House or another place will remain empty words. I hope that the Minister will reassure your Lordships that not only have this Government been working to establish that support, but also that this country is ready to do everything possible to offer support in the case of both the worst and the best outcomes.
2.05 pm
Baroness Northover: My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for repeating the Statement and for updating it. Things are moving very fast and much has changed since yesterday. Because we were not given this Statement yesterday, I asked for it to be taken today, to give us a chance to hear from the Minister about this fast-developing area. I thank the usual channels for allowing that.
I did not anticipate that Mugabe might be removed, as now seems possible, by peaceful, democratic means. That makes me feel incredibly optimistic about development in Africa. However, we must make sure
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1183
Can the Minister update us on whether he feels that the parliamentary elections have been fair? The new system of posting results outside polling stations, which are then systematically recorded by the MDC, often on mobile telephones, has made it much more difficult to rig this election. Will the Government support pressure for full results to be published and compared? What more can the Minister tell us of the presidential election? Does he think that there might be a further contest?
What role is the military playing? Does the Minister think that, as is rumoured, it plans a campaign of violence to keep Mugabe in power? Yesterday, Zimbabwe’s Deputy Information Minister called the Opposition’s claim of victory “irresponsible” and said:
Will the Minister do all that he can to ensure that any actions by the police and the army to frustrate the will of the electorate will not be countenanced by the international community, particularly by SADC, whose declared standards would be breached by such political engagement by the police and military? Will the noble Lord assure us that he will ask South Africa, the AU and the UN to make that clear? What role is SADC playing? Is it correct that SADC leaders are now pressing Morgan Tsvangirai to be accommodating?
In the longer term, what we know about fragile states has immense importance here. We cannot let Zimbabwe slide into chaos. Could the Minister assure us that, even though we have pressing concerns in Iraq and Afghanistan, we will not let Zimbabwe slide down the agenda? How does he think we should balance the claims of those in the old regime? They did little to move this day forward until they saw the economic and political writing on the wall, as it is clear they now do. On the other hand, does he think it better for them to be inside, rather than outside wishing any new regime ill?
Last year, the FCO gave us a full and impressive briefing on the plans of the international community for a post-Mugabe era. Could the noble Lord update us on those plans? The Guardian reports that £1 billion in aid is likely to go to Zimbabwe. Can he confirm this and could he describe its outlines? What will happen in the near future to food aid and, in the longer term, to agricultural development and efforts to tackle HIV/AIDS, on which we have just had a debate?
Aid must not be siphoned off by international corporations, as has happened in Afghanistan. Local enterprises must be given the investment that they need to build a stable foundation for a revived economy. The assistance given to resettle returning exiles, as happened in the Balkans—albeit with the possible resentment of those who stayed behind—will be important. There will need to be programmes to reskill people. A quarter of Zimbabwe’s people have
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1184
In conclusion, does the Minister share my optimism that, if Zimbabwe successfully comes through this crisis, its future will be much brighter? However, it will need sustained effort by the international community if the long years of devastation are to be reversed. I have heard it said that it would take seven years to turn around each year of the chaos caused by Mugabe. Does the noble Lord agree that this means that the international community needs to be there for the long haul and not simply for a year or two?
2.10 pm
Lord Malloch-Brown: My Lords, the noble Baronesses have made very important points. They both understand that we speak in this House today under some constraint. There is often a complaint that in the Lords we do not have an audience. Today, we do. I shall quote from this morning’s Zimbabwean newspaper, the Herald:
“Almost the entire British state machinery—from the BBC to its House of Commons—was almost going hysterical over the delay in announcing the election results by the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission”.
Apparently, the debate yesterday in the other place was broadcast live in Zimbabwe and repeated throughout the evening. Therefore, as we discuss the issue today, we do so under the burden that those who would seek to prolong the current stalemate in Zimbabwean politics and those who would resist change will fall on anything that we say to try to convert what should be a judgment on the will of the Zimbabwean people into a diversion about whether the British are “up to it again”. Therefore, as the two noble Baronesses have done, we need to pick our words carefully and avoid anything that can feed these last-minute tactics of a failed regime in Zimbabwe.
I turn to the points that have been made. As has been reported in the press, ZANU-PF has indeed, with the completion of the returns for the lower House, lost its majority. That is the good news, but the bad news is that the results have not given the MDC a clear majority. It will be dependent on independent votes to govern with a majority, so we face a prospect of a rather unstable situation in the lower House. Whether the vote count was done fairly remains to be seen. Certainly, we have heard that the MDC and the Civil Society Network, which also made a poll analysis, both suspect that at the very least some of the majorities notched up in the seats that ZANU-PF won have been inflated and exaggerated.
However, the broader point is that this election was inherently unfair from the beginning. Far from there being a level playing field, it was, as a diplomat said to me today, more of a slalom course. Millions of people could not vote because they were outside the country; opposition leaders were allowed access to the media in a significant way only in the last days of the
3 Apr 2008 : Column 1185
That brings me to the questions about what happens next. Clearly, at this point there are two possible outcomes. One is that there is a second round—that President Mugabe insists that Morgan Tsvangirai has not crossed the 50 per cent mark in the first round and demands the right to challenge him in a second round. If that were to happen, there would be a clear need to ensure the deployment of a much strengthened international observer. In the first round, the Zimbabweans did not allow observers from Europe, let alone from the United Kingdom. They allowed to be present only those whom they saw as observers from friendly neighbouring countries. I think that those same friendly neighbours would be the first to agree with us that, in the case of a second round, they would need the assistance of other international observers, from Europe and elsewhere. With a leader who has ruled in the way that President Mugabe has for the past 28 years, it is impossible to conceive of him winning unless there were a massive effort to steal the election result. Therefore, it would be very important to put in a strong observer presence to ensure that the SADC principles of free elections were respected.
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |