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I know that CRAE, the Children’s Rights Alliance for England, has supported such a move to give children a voice. I agree with my noble friend’s remarks on the desirability of setting up such a mechanism. As I understand it, the introduction of a statutory basis for school councils in Wales in 2006 has been monitored by Estyn, the body responsible for school inspection in Wales. Estyn considers that the regulations have,

“enabled the participation agenda to make progress and gain support quickly in schools”.

That fits neatly with the issue that we have all been raising in the Bill about how crucial it is to engage children at an early age to stop them becoming disaffected with education, which leads to such depressing truancy rates and total disengagement later on. Part of that engagement process will inevitably mean listening to young people’s views and taking them into account when making decisions that affect them.

However, I sound a note of caution, just as the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, did. It may not be the best course of action to be too prescriptive. We think that it is best left up to schools, not central government, to decide on the best way to engage their students. But we sincerely hope that in sharing best practice, schools will see the relevance of thriving, dynamic school councils. The noble Baroness makes another valid point about educational institutions.

I assume, and I am sure that the Minister will tell me if I am wrong, that this must be an area that Ofsted looks at. Presumably, it could recommend setting up a school council if it felt that the school was failing to consult with, or listen to, its pupils.

Baroness Howe of Idlicote: I support the sentiments behind both these amendments. What is slightly worrying me is whether this would apply to all maintained schools. I am thinking of academies, which have a certain amount of freedom—not to select parent governors, for example—and their own ways of running things. Although that may not have any application regarding a council representing the views of students, equally it may. Would there be anything to impede a maintained school acting in this way?

10 pm

Lord Adonis: The Government are a strong proponent of the value of school councils for all the reasons set

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out by the noble Lord, Lord Elton, in terms of the systematic engagement of pupils in issues affecting the good conduct of the school, not least issues to do with discipline, behaviour, bullying and attendance. We do not want to regulate by statute in this area for the reasons set out by the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, but we have given strong encouragement. I personally commissioned Professor Geoff Whitty two years ago to report to the Government on the issue of a pupil voice and participation. His report, which was published last September, sets out practical recommendations for how schools, including primary schools, can set up councils more effectively. Most primary schools now have councils—it is not simply secondary schools. To take up the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, it also sets out other methods of engaging pupils in decision-making; for example, in consulting on behaviour policies in schools, and not simply by the more formal means of school councils.

We support strongly School Councils UK, a voluntary organisation which provides guidance and assistance to schools in setting up councils, and we have just published new guidance entitled Working Together: Listening to the voices of children and young people on the whole range of issues to do with promoting a student voice in schools and the benefits of it. This is statutory guidance for schools. It has a section on young people and school councils which says:

“Among schools pupil or school councils are prized as a means of giving pupils a voice, developing their personal and social skills, enhancing the Citizenship curriculum and promoting the development of a school as a community. These councils can take many different forms in terms of their constitution and remit. To be effective, however, a council does need clear links to its school’s senior management team and governing body, as well as mechanisms for involving all pupils in its work on an ongoing basis. This could include the use of a year group and class councils alongside a whole-school council”.

And so it goes on. So there is a document which sets out advice and guidance in this area.

As I say, we do not want to be unduly prescriptive. We believe, though, that the systematic engagement of pupils in decisions that affect them in the management of the school—and there is none more important than the managing of behaviour and, in particular, how schools address this vexed issues of bullying—school councils can have an important part to play and we have been active proponents of them. We do not think, however, that in primary legislation we should prescribe a rigid template for how school councils should be organised.

Baroness Walmsley: The Minister has concentrated his remarks on the way in which the Government have encouraged school councils. Will he say something about the duties of further education colleges to consult their students?

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Lord Adonis: We similarly encourage them. All colleges that I am aware of have student councils which play an active role in engaging with the management on issues which affect students. I virtually never visit schools now—certainly not secondary schools and very few primary schools—that do not have a school council, or indeed colleges. It is now quite normal when I visit that one of the presentations made to me is by the school council. They are usually impressive and show a maturity on the part of the pupils who are engaged in this process that is commendable and a testament to the important and productive work that has taken place in this area in recent years.

Baroness Howe of Idlicote: Can the Minister say anything in answer to my question?

Lord Adonis: Every academy that I have visited has a school council. Academies seek successfully to engage students in their learning and in the management of decisions which affect them and are every bit as committed to the promotion of the voice of students, including school councils, as other schools.

Lord Elton: I shall clearly have to read Professor Whitty’s report and the new guidance. I hope that therein I shall get some inkling of what the effect of schools councils is and how it is that the whole-school behaviour policy seems, in judging by the output, not to be working in quite a large proportion of schools in England and Wales. I may be merely pessimistic. I am getting to the age of pessimism, I suppose. I hope that the noble Lord will at a later stage be able to enlighten me about this.

As to my amendment being prescriptive, I should have thought that schools councils, or other similar collective mechanisms, really could not be called that by any stretch of the imagination. I have sought to make the ministerial intervention pretty limited but I am grateful to noble Lords for their contributions. I cannot promise not to return to this on Report but in the mean time, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

[Amendment No. 61A not moved.]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills (Baroness Morgan of Drefelin): I beg to move that the House do now resume.

Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.

House resumed.

House adjourned at 10.05 pm.

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