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With regard to Amendments Nos. 203 and 204 tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, we share her concern that affordable transport should be available to all young people to access education and training. Local authorities already have a duty to draw up a transport policy statement relating to young people of sixth-form age travelling to school or college. That statement must set out the provision of transport they consider necessary to facilitate the attendance of people of sixth-form age in education. There is already a requirement for local authorities to take cost into account in preparing their transport policy statements, alongside a range of other factors; for example, the distance from home to school or college and the need to ensure choice of education provision. Local authorities must also consider the needs of students who would not be able to attend a particular education or training establishment without help or support.
6.15 pm
I turn to Amendment No. 207A, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Low, which would require local authorities to make such arrangements for the provision of transport and otherwise as they consider necessary, or as the Secretary of State may direct, to facilitate the attendance of learners up to the age of 25 with disabilities in further education. I know that there are examples of good work by local authorities in supporting this important group of young people to access provision. In particular, a limited evaluation carried out by the Department for Transport of travel training schemes, which is a scheme where young people with learning difficulties are supported to use public or other forms of transport, shows potentially significant benefits. It
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However, while there is some good practice in this area, I agree with the noble Lord that it is patchy and that more needs to be done to ensure that no young person is prevented from participating due to lack of appropriate support. That is why we have committed to working with Skill over the summer to look further into the scale of this issue, the number and needs of the learners affected and how the latter can best be met. That work will include a further assessment of travel training as well as consideration of other ways to mainstream good practice and to bring all areas up to the standards of the best. From our findings we will develop a firm strategy including dates for implementation, and I am happy to discuss with the noble Lord, Lord Low, the outcome of that work prior to Report. I hope that on that basis he will be satisfied that we intend to take serious, concrete action in this area, and will not feel it necessary to press his amendment today.
Baroness Verma: I thank the Minister for his response to my amendments. Along with all Members of the Committee, I look forward to reading the report. Will he just confirm—I may have misheard—that he believes that learner centres will pay towards the cost of transport in partnership with other partners, and would those other partners include employers and students themselves? I am not sure if I heard it right.
Lord Adonis: These decisions need to be taken case by case at the local level. I did not say that the other partners the noble Baroness mentioned should be involved as a matter of course; it is much more likely that the local authority will be involved directly.
Baroness Verma: I thank the Minister. I will read with interest what the report has to say before I comment further.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford: I thought perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Low, might like to respond before I withdraw my amendment.
Lord Low of Dalston: I am grateful to the noble Baroness. I am still comparatively inexperienced in this place, and once when I sought to withdraw an amendment that was grouped I was told that that was not the correct procedure, so I was waiting for my amendment to fall with the rest. However, I am happy to take my cue from the noble Baroness.
I am grateful to the Minister for his careful response. I am sure that Skill will be more than anxious to participate with the discussions and the work of which he has spoken over the summer. I look forward to hearing from him about the outcome of that work before we return to these issues on Report. On that basis, I am more than happy not to press the amendment.
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Baroness Sharp of Guildford: I shall respond on Amendment No. 203 and make one or two remarks about Amendment No. 207A. I am delighted that the Minister is going to do something about this. About 18 months ago, the late Lady Darcy de Knayth and I met the Minister, Mr Rammell. We received promises that action would be taken, but nothing much has emerged from that. I hope that the Minister will pursue this and ensure that we succeed in getting something done.
With regard to Amendments Nos. 203 and 204, I hear what the Minister said, although to some extent he told me what I told him: local authorities should be making plans and talking this into account. It is clear, as I said, that some local authorities are not fulfilling their statutory duties to produce the appropriate transport plans. It is awkward for them; it costs money and we know that they do not like spending money on these things. Money is very tight for local authorities, but nevertheless it is necessary. A lot of young people in the 16 to 18 year-old age group are seeking education and training and it is necessary that they are able to pursue the choice of training that they want.
We will almost certainly bring the amendment back on Report because we need to consider it further. However, for the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
[Amendments Nos. 204 to 207 not moved.]
[Amendment No. 207A not moved.]
Clause 71 [Learning aims for persons aged 19 and over]:
Baroness Verma moved Amendment No. 208:
The noble Baroness said: I have tabled Amendments Nos. 208 and 209 with the intention of upholding and furthering the spirit of aspiration which is the aim of the Bill. Clause 71 amends the Learning and Skills Act 2000 so that the Learning and Skills Council must secure the provision of facilities for relevant education and training for adults which is suitable to their requirements. My amendment would change the wording to “aspirations and requirements”. We do not want the provision of facilities to be limited to the barest minimum. Mere requirements are relatively easy to meet. However, I, along with, I am sure, all noble Lords, would like people to be able to fulfil whatever aspirations they have and not be obliged to undertake whatever happens to be available simply because it is there and they have no other option. It is individuals who best know what route they wish to follow, and we should use the opportunity afforded by the Bill to provide as great a selection of options as possible.
It is clear that the Bill will not stand or fall on the basis of these amendments, but I am tempted to insert a more generous form of wording. I would like to send a message that we are wholeheartedly about providing
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Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: If only parliamentary draftsmen could be encouraged to listen to the noble Baroness’s plea for a more generous form of wording, it would keep us all much happier. I need to resist the amendments, but I hope to convince the noble Baroness that the aspiration to which she refers is fully catered for not only in the Bill but administratively.
I have a lot of sympathy with the amendments. Naturally, the debate so far has focused on improving the skills of young people, which is crucial for the country’s future economic prosperity and the life chances for generations of the most vulnerable. I am, however, pleased to be able to turn to the part of the Bill concerned with meeting the challenge we face in building the skills base of the nation’s existing workforce.
We want to help as many adults as possible to improve their skills and achieve their aspirations, whatever they may be. Some adults may aspire to being able to read a novel or to helping their children with their maths homework. Others may wish to gain skills for employment or to further their career prospects.
As I said at Second Reading, much progress has been made in the arena of adult education and training. Both quality and quantity have improved: the success rate on courses in FE colleges reached 77 per cent in 2005-06, up from 59 per cent in 2000-01; and 1.34 million adults have upskilled to level 2 since the end of 2002. I therefore believe that we are making progress.
The reforms to the post-19 learning and skills system are now focused on building on the successes to date to create a system that is more responsive to learner and employer demand and provides everyone with the platform of skills needed to succeed in life and work. The new duties in Clause 71 are a key part of our drive for world-class skills in 2020, which was encapsulated in the Government’s response to the report of my noble friend Lord Leitch on the UK’s skills needs.
Since the Learning and Skills Act 2000 was passed, the Learning and Skills Council has been able to fund a range of provision for adults at varying funding rates. Until now, however, there has not been a legal duty on the LSC to secure free tuition for adults. This is one of the things that the clause provides. It will also give individuals the right to expect education and training in skills at basic and intermediate levels which they will need to achieve their aspirations, or at least to take the first crucial steps towards achieving them.
To help learners achieve their aspirations, we need to create a system that responds to learners’ individual requirements. I think that that is exactly the point that the noble Baroness is making. Ensuring that people have the opportunity to obtain a wide range of skills at basic and intermediate levels is the most effective way to improve the life chances of those with fewer skills and to support social justice.
To this end we are placing a new duty on the Learning and Skills Council to secure the provision of proper, rather than reasonable, facilities for certain specified adult qualifications. To fulfil this duty, the LSC must secure the provision of facilities for education and training of a quantity sufficient and quality adequate
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In practice, that means that adults can expect free and appropriate provision of basic skills qualifications at level 1 literacy and entry level 3 numeracy, their first full-time level 2 qualification. In addition, for 19 to 25 year-olds, there will be free tuition for their first full level 3 qualification. Because learner choice is clearly paramount in meeting the reasonable needs of adults, the legislation will require the LSC, in exercising its duty, to increase opportunities for learners to exercise choice and to encourage a wider range of education and training opportunities, as set out in new subsections 5(d) and (e) of new Section 4A to be inserted into the Learning and Skills Act 2000. That should offer the noble Baroness some reassurance. The provision includes ensuring the provision of part-time courses and a close fit with the needs of the local, regional and national job market. Effective information, advice and guidance from the Adult Advancement and Careers Service will support learners in identifying the right courses for them and, if necessary, finding a range of suitable alternatives to meet their needs and aspirations.
Despite my general support for the intention behind the amendment, I do not think that it is appropriate at this stage. The LSC is a high-level strategic funding body which does not have the day-to-day contact with individuals that would be needed to assess their needs according to their future goals or aspirations. I would suggest that the Adult Advancement and Careers Service, the learndirect advice line and learning providers are best placed to engage directly with learners to help them access the courses best suited to them, as I know that the noble Baroness is keen to see. The clauses are carefully balanced to ensure that the duties on the LSC enable it to operate in practice, while at the same time enabling learners’ needs to be met. That is why it uses the language of “requirements”. I assure the noble Baroness that I believe that the provisions in Clause 71 provide the essential building blocks that learners need in meeting their aspirations.
6.30 pm
On Amendment No. 209, the new duty on the LSC to secure the provision of proper facilities for relevant education or training for adult learners requires that those facilities are, as I said, “sufficient” in quantity and “adequate” in quality to meet the reasonable needs of individuals. As I said, our further education system is good and getting better. Over three-quarters of students in learning go on to achieve their qualification and by 2011, with the assistance of these new adult skills provisions, we hope to increase this success rate to over 80 per cent.
I hope that I have offered the noble Baroness the reassurance that she rightly seeks and that she will be able to withdraw her amendment.
Baroness Perry of Southwark: I ask the Minister for clarification of what she said, to which I tried to listen very carefully. The language of requirements is neutral;
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Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: I do not want to be flippant but while I was reading the speaking note I was thinking about Harry Potter and the room of requirements. I do not know whether noble Lords have read the book, but the room can supply you with whatever your requirements might be. It is a very interesting concept.
My interpretation is that the LSC must create a balance between all the duties placed on it. On requirements, it is clear that we are providing an entitlement to new additional skills level training, and that the LSC must make provision that takes into account the local employment market and the skills gap in the population. Those are the high-level duties on the LSC. The argument that I am trying to make—and whether I am making it very successfully is another question—is that, for an individual’s aspiration, there will be a toolkit of funding provision and courses available. There will be the Adult Advancement and Careers Service, which will support any individuals who could benefit from a level 3 numeracy booster or a level 2 training provision. The Adult Advancement and Careers Service would talk in detail to adults and discuss with them what their aspirations might be, then help them to identify what courses are available. Some of those courses will be fully funded by the LSC and some may not be—but that adult advancement service will help individuals to identify a tailored menu of options for that adult learner.
I am happy to write to the noble Baroness in fuller terms, if that would help, but that is what we are trying to explain here and that is why we are amending the 2000 Act to make it more explicit—in legalese terms.
Baroness Perry of Southwark: I am grateful to the Minister for her reply, although I am now confused at a somewhat higher level that I was before.
Lord Elton: I hope that we may share that letter. The Minister’s reply to my noble friend’s very humble amendment was quite surprising. We have three or four paragraphs on how excellent the present system is and what it has delivered, then we had many more on how much is going to be delivered under the new system, but there was nothing much addressing the question of aspirations as distinct from requirements. We have now had requirements defined, but I have not
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At this point I am tempted to reflect that every Bill team, backed and encouraged by every parliamentary draftsman, starts from the position that the Bill is perfect and must be defended and only slowly yields to a suggestion that it could be in any way improved. Parliamentary draftsmen can, on occasion, be persuaded to revisit an issue; this may not be such an issue—but until we know how the Minister interprets “aspirations”, as compared with how my noble friend interprets the word, it is really very difficult to see whether we should ask the Minister to do so or not.
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: I shall attempt to respond. The noble Lord has a great deal of wisdom in his remarks. I had a wonderful sentence which I could not bring myself to read out—and I shall not do so now—which said that adequate could be defined as sufficient and, of course, sufficient as adequate. I am not sure that that helps to take us forward.
The Learning and Skills Council is operating at a population level and the Adult Advancement and Careers Service is operating at a one-to-one individual level. The argument that we are making is that aspirations are defined at an individual level and requirements less so. I am very happy to write to noble Lords and we can have this discussion again, if the noble Baroness will be kind enough to withdraw her amendment and give me another chance. I appreciate that these are very important definitions that need to be clear, so I am not belittling her amendment in any way.
I have just been handed a further note that says that this—whatever “this” is—reflects the current duty on the Learning and Skills Council in relation to young people in the Learning and Skills Act 2000. That refers to another point that I have not made clear, about consistency with the legislation applying to young people. The adult provisions here are consistent with what already exists for young people. We are keen not to create an inconsistency.
I have another note saying that aspirations are subjective, while requirements are measured against national priorities—literacy and numeracy, level 2 and level 3.
Lord Elton: That last message was extraordinarily illuminating and could take us a long way as we study it between now and the Recess.
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