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Democratic Republic of Congo: UN Mission
11.28 am
The Lord Bishop of Winchester asked Her Majesty’s Government:
Whether they support the request of the United Nations Secretary-General’s Special Representative for Congo for increased resources for the United Nations mission in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
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The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Malloch-Brown): My Lords, we are gravely concerned by the increase in violence in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The UN mission in the DRC faces an important challenge in stabilising the situation in the east of the country and supporting efforts to alleviate the humanitarian consequences. We are reviewing, with our partners and the UN Secretary-General, the current levels of support to MONUC.
The Lord Bishop of Winchester: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that Answer. I hope that, as the Government take part in the review, they will also take a hard look at the mandate, and the interpretation of the mandate, for MONUC in the Congo. What steps are the Government taking, with others, to gain the renewed commitment of all parties, including the CNDP of Nkunda, to the Amani programme of work on the range of issues that underlie the conflict? What is their attitude to the suggestion that emerged at a meeting in Kinshasa on Tuesday, chaired by the president and attended by Her Majesty’s ambassador, and for which France, as president of the EU, has shown some enthusiasm, for a strong force—a kind of “Artemis mark II”—to strengthen MONUC’s efforts to restore peace in the DRC and so in the region, and to restore space for pursuit of the vital Amani programme?
Lord Malloch-Brown: My Lords, the right reverend Prelate rightly draws our attention to this issue. There is chaos in the eastern Congo. The city of Goma is subject to an extraordinary degree of lawlessness. However, I can assure noble Lords that there is now a ceasefire which has held since late last night. The rebels are no longer advancing on Goma. I have within the past hour spoken to the UN special representative in the Congo and he renewed the request for European troops. I told him that we first had to see how the political situation was going to shape up and whether this ceasefire would hold. Our first priority is a political process backed by adequate humanitarian access.
Lord Howell of Guildford: My Lords, this is a colossal tragedy to which the right reverend Prelate has rightly drawn our attention. What is going on in the Congo, and has gone on for the past 45 years since the total failure of decolonisation, has been described as the world’s worst humanitarian disaster. As the Minister rightly says, it has got very much worse in the past 72 hours. Obviously, we from this island cannot solve the tragedy or help directly by ourselves, and we must work with others. Where would he put the priority? Is it in trying to get more reinforcement for the UN troops, who seem to be in no position to stop the Rwandan-backed rebels—if they are Rwandan-backed? Or can some European contribution be made given that Mr Kouchner in Paris is saying that there should be an EU force of 1,500 troops but Mr Solana is saying that he does not want troops, he only wants diplomacy? Could we really work bilaterally with our good friends in Europe and possibly avoid any undue European Union bureaucracy which would only delay things in helping these poor people?
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Lord Malloch-Brown: My Lords, the root solution to this problem is the implementation of the existing political agreement which calls for the moving of rebels away from the border and the resolution of these two rebel groups by their reintegration into society in Rwanda and the Congo. A failure to act with sufficient will and energy on the agreement has led to this flare-up of violence and a renewed political effort to ensure that it is implemented is key.
Humanitarian access is now vital. There are some 35,000 displaced people moving towards Goma and we have to be able to assist them. We have made £20 million available to the pooled humanitarian fund of which £15 million has already been passed on to agencies. However, we must keep in mind the prospect that peace will not be restored. Therefore, we certainly cannot rule out an additional deployment, whether it is a strengthening of MONUC or a European force. It is too early to say whether that is necessary; and whether it would arrive in time is also questionable. We have first to try to secure a political solution backed by proper humanitarian support.
Lord Alton of Liverpool: My Lords, the Minister will have seen Ban Ki-Moon’s statement yesterday that he regards this as a humanitarian catastrophe. He will also have seen the figures promoted by the International Rescue Committee that some 5.4 million people have died in the Democratic Republic of Congo since 1998. Given the deteriorating situation there, with Save the Children pulling out of Kivu yesterday and the situation in Goma which he has just described, does the Minister think that part of the political process to which he has just alluded should be a high-level diplomatic meeting between President Kabila of the Congo and President Paul Kagame of Rwanda? Given that, in the east of the Congo, one dimension is the conflict between Hutus and Tutsis, and that Kabila, certainly during a meeting that I had with him, has indicated his willingness to have such high-level diplomacy, is it not perhaps time that Her Majesty’s Government facilitated such an interchange?
Lord Malloch-Brown: My Lords, I have on many occasions spoken to both presidents to urge them to meet, and they have frequently met. The difficulty has been the follow-up, which has led to a history of mistrust between the two men. Just today, however, facilitated by the UN, the Rwandan Foreign Minister has flown to Kinshasa for high-level direct contact between Rwanda and the Congo.
Lord Avebury: My Lords, considering that 850,000 people are displaced in North Kivu, with a quarter of a million of them displaced since August, is it not extraordinary that the Security Council has not met since March and that there has been no statement by the Secretary-General since that date? What moves is the United Kingdom making to ensure that the subject is on the Security Council’s agenda?
Lord Malloch-Brown: My Lords, I am pleased to be able to correct the noble Lord on that. The Security Council has met several times this week on the issue.
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Lord Jay of Ewelme: My Lords, given the deteriorating situation in the eastern Congo and the difficulties in south Sudan and Somalia, what are Her Majesty's Government doing to strengthen the capacity of the international system to respond more effectively to conflicts in future and to try to prevent further humanitarian catastrophes?
Lord Malloch-Brown: My Lords, the noble Lord puts his finger on the real issue. We see international peacekeeping buckling under the demands being placed on it without sufficient investment in improving the quality of peacekeeping, whether it is UN or AU peacekeeping. There has been an erosion of political support for peacekeeping and a willingness on the part of local parties to conflicts and of Governments to resist the deployment of peacekeeping forces, so I am pleased to say that the Prime Minister has taken a lead on a strategy that is intended to restore the authority and legitimacy of peacekeeping while strengthening its capabilities.
Pre-release Access to Official Statistics Order 2008
National Assembly for Wales (Legislative Competence) (Social Welfare and Other Fields) Order 2008
11.37 am
The Lord President of the Council (Baroness Royall of Blaisdon): My Lords, I beg to move the two Motions standing in my name on the Order Paper.
Moved, That the draft orders be referred to Grand Committee—(Baroness Royall of Blaisdon.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
Education and Skills Bill
11.38 am
Clause 1 [Persons to whom Part 1 applies]:
Baroness Morris of Bolton moved Amendment No. 1:
1: Clause 1, page 1, line 6, at end insert—
“( ) This Part does not apply to any person who is the primary care giver to a child under the age of 12 months.”
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, it seems a very long time since we last met to discuss this Bill; in fact it is 14 and a half weeks since we concluded the Committee stage, and the world has changed greatly in 14 weeks.
No one knows for certain what the next few years will bring or what the eventual outcome for the economy will be, but it is certain that we will need a workforce that is as highly skilled and well motivated as possible
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In Committee we moved an amendment listing various categories of persons who ought to be exempt. The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, argued that the Government could see no case for a blanket exclusion, that each case would be dealt with on its individual merits and that Clause 39 would allow discretion in extreme cases. Although we have some reservations, we can see the Government’s point. However, we still have a concern over one category of possible exemptions: the primary care giver. I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, will be addressing the category of volunteers in later amendments, but for this amendment we are concerned with the exemption for the primary care giver to a young child under 12 months. Our concern stems as much from the needs of the baby as from the needs of the mother. It seems perverse that the Government extended maternity leave for working mothers, which we wholeheartedly supported, so that babies could enjoy a secure attachment and families would be given time to bond and settle down with their child, yet teenage mothers, who probably need this more, are expected to start courses relatively soon after their baby is born. What the Government are trying to do is perverse.
No one would wish to argue against the depressing picture that the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, painted of the increased risk of entering poverty that teenage parents and their children face. Education and training is undoubtedly the way to mitigate this. We are arguing for the needs of children under 12 months also to be taken into account. I beg to move.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford: My Lords, in Committee was it not indicated that teenage mothers who had children under 12 months would not be expected to attend education or training, except in parenting, and is there not an issue of whether parenting classes could be accredited? Could the Minister clarify this issue?
Baroness Blackstone: My Lords, unfortunately, I was not here when this issue was discussed in Committee but I would like to make the alternative case that a teenage mother needs education and training as much as any other young person and should be given sufficient support with childcare arrangements to be able to benefit from this Bill’s requirement for all 16 to 19 year-olds to continue in some form of education and training. If the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, is saying that they should be allowed to opt out of this legislation, that would be a profound mistake and not in the interests of these girls’ future.
The Earl of Listowel: My Lords, Dr Roger Morgan, the person charged with listening to the voice of children and young people in care and leaving care,
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11.45 am
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Children, Schools and Families (Baroness Morgan of Drefelin): My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, that a lot has changed in the 14 weeks between Committee and Report—not only the economy and the circumstances surrounding that but also the Minister. I am delighted to be involved in continuing the discussions started by my noble friend Lord Adonis and in continuing—faithfully, I hope—the direction of travel that he initiated.
The fundamental point of this legislation—to raise the participation age—should be to give the same opportunities to, and have the same expectations of, every young person, whatever their background or situation. As we have stressed throughout our discussions, teenage parents or any other group of young people should not be treated differently from the outset and given a second-class offer. That is the prism through which we look at these issues.
In relation to teenage parents in particular, of course young mothers will not be expected to return to formal education if they are recovering from giving birth, as is the case with young mothers under the age of 16. They will be entitled to reasonable time off around the pregnancy, as is the case for young people currently in compulsory schooling. We will provide guidance to local authorities about what this should be and will fully consult stakeholders, representatives of the sector and others affected by the guidance. There will be a range of ways in which young parents can re-engage in learning when they are ready and they will receive support in doing so. As the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, highlighted, the question of parenting classes would come in here. Where possible we look to incorporate such classes into the foundation learning tier, which will be accredited.
A set of flexible learning opportunities, timetabling and settings will therefore be available to help young parents to participate in a way that suits them. Information, advice and guidance are available to help young parents through the Connexions service and the targeted youth services, which are very important to this group.
The Government are committed to having a Sure Start children’s centre in every community, where teenage parents can access a broad range of support in one place—that is key here—including childcare, education
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There are already many examples of good and innovative practice on which to build in supporting young parents back into learning, and I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Morris, is involved in promoting concerns such as that. For example, as my noble friend Lord Adonis mentioned in Committee, Newcastle-under-Lyme College in Staffordshire runs a learning programme for teenage parents at a local children’s centre where childcare is provided. As well as working on literacy, numeracy and ICT skills, the programme helps participants to access other support services for themselves and their children, such as those provided by health visitors. Most participants later progress to further learning at the college’s main site, so it is about giving parents the opportunity to progress.
Of course, as the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, highlighted, we must remember that teenage mothers do not always achieve the qualifications that they need to progress into further education. About 40 per cent of teenage mothers leave school with no qualifications. The ones who achieve better long-term outcomes for themselves and their children are those who gain employment, for which, as we all know, they need training and qualifications.
Research shows that young mothers who have previously been disengaged from learning are often motivated to take part when they become pregnant to help to ensure better outcomes for their babies. Thus it is often important that they can start courses relatively soon after the baby is born. That is why we do not want to exempt them from the duty to participate. It is also important that further education colleges, for example, have more flexible start dates—not just September—to capitalise on this high level of motivation that pregnant women experience.
There may be challenges in providing the same offer for this group of young people, but it should not mean that they are excluded. We already have a system of support, and we will make full use of the intervening five years to develop this further as we move towards implementation of raising the participation age. That will challenge the system to provide for everyone, and it is not right that any group of young people should be excluded, ignored or neglected. As my noble friend Lady Blackstone said, we have in mind the interests not only of the baby but the mother. We need to make sure that the mother can best serve her child. I hope that, with those reassurances and our absolute commitment to ensure that we meet the needs of young mothers, the noble Baroness will consider withdrawing her amendment.
Baroness Morris of Bolton: My Lords, I thank the Minister for her thorough answer. I forgive her; it was remiss of me not to welcome her to the Dispatch Box to lead on this Bill. I always felt that she was part of the team anyway, so it was not exactly new.
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The noble Baroness said that we discussed parenting classes, which we did, but the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, said that that would happen only if they were for the requisite hours and it was accredited training. We would welcome that being put into the system. I do not disagree one jot with the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone. Nobody would want teenage mothers to have a second-class offer; that would not be right. Our concern is for the baby, which we discussed at great length on the Childcare Bill, when we spoke about the problems of shoving young babies into nurseries and their having lots of different carers. We just want to ensure that, when a local authority is trying to provide something for young mothers, the needs of the baby are taken into account. I would welcome a chat with the Minister between now and Third Reading to see if somehow that could be highlighted. I am sure that that would go some way towards reassuring me, but for now I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Baroness Sharp of Guildford moved Amendment No. 2:
2: Clause 1, page 1, line 10, at end insert “, and
(d) is not engaged in voluntary activity for more than 20 hours per week.”
The noble Baroness said: My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments Nos. 6, 7 and 64. Before making my remarks on Amendment No.2, I should say with regard to the previous amendment that the arrangements with Sure Start at the college in Newcastle-under-Lyme are just the sort of thing that we want.
This amendment probes a little further on the discussion we had in Committee when we established that when a young person had left school but was engaged in voluntary activities for more than 20 hours a week, that voluntary activity might count as work-based learning provided that the person undertook training activities within that voluntary activity that led to some form of accreditation. For many voluntary activities, such as working with children or older people, that would pose no problems. There are recognised qualifications to be gained leading to NVQs that are now required to work in those areas. Volunteers can easily participate in such courses.
A problem arises, however, in relation to the sorts of activities provided by the Prince’s Trust and Barnardo’s for young people who have been school drop-outs and who have left school with no qualifications and minimal, if any, literacy or numeracy skills. It is not clear whether they will be required to undertake courses that lead to accreditation. That is where Amendments Nos. 6 and 7 to Clauses 4 and 6 come in. The sort of programme provided by the Prince’s Trust might be called a personalised learning programme. The young people concerned are not ready to take accredited courses, but are pursuing courses of learning that are tailored to their needs and help them to gain fulfilment through education and to move on further. Those courses may equip them to move on to accredited learning at a later stage. It may be that their special educational needs are such that they are unlikely ever to attain levels of skill or competence required for accreditation.
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