6 Nov 2008 : Column 319
6 Nov 2008 : Column 319
6 Nov 2008 : Column 319
Thursday, 6 November 2008.
The House met at eleven o'clock: the LORD SPEAKER on the Woolsack.
Prayers—Read by the Lord Bishop of Chelmsford.
House of Lords: Defra
Baroness Byford asked Her Majesty’s Government:
Why the decision was taken no longer to have a Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Minister in the House of Lords responsible for farming.
The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change & Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath): My Lords, I speak for all Defra business in this House, including farming. The decision to give me ministerial responsibility within Defra for sustainable development and environmental issues was made to maximise the benefits of working for both Defra and the new Department of Energy and Climate Change.
Baroness Byford: My Lords, I thank the Minister for that response. I do not wish to question his ability; that was not the reason for tabling the Question. However, he now straddles two departments and has 15 specific responsibilities. What proportion of his time will be given to food, farming and production? How will he deal with the crisis among upland farmers, who are now faced with clawback due to the diabolical way in which the RPA handled their payments?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, the noble Baroness will know that the RPA had rather a troubled history and introduction, but overall its performance has improved. We are committed to improving its performance. I know that there are concerns about hill farmers and about the new environmental stewardship system. However, we are in very close discussion with those interests.
It is not uncommon for Ministers to have responsibilities across both departments. I will do my very best to ensure that I know as much as I can about farming. I have met the president of the NFU. As a consumer, I welcome the developments in British farming and consider that it will play a very important role in the future. I am sure that noble Lords will remind me if they think that I am neglecting farming matters.
Lord Tyler: My Lords, does the Minister recall that when we had a Minister in this House specifically responsible for farming—the noble Lord, Lord Bach—he was made the scapegoat for what happened in the RPA and was summarily sacked? Can the noble Lord reassure the House that he will not be sacked and made a scapegoat if there continue to be problems with the RPA? Has he seen yesterday’s figures on farm
6 Nov 2008 : Column 320
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I shall be cautious in forecasting the length of my ministerial life. That is for a higher authority. The noble Lord is right to draw attention to the problems connected with the RPA. I pay tribute to my noble friend Lord Bach for the work that he did to resolve those problems. It is a great pleasure for me to see him back as a departmental Minister. Overall, the performance of the RPA has improved hugely. However, I can assure the noble Lord that we are not complacent. We continue to monitor its performance very carefully. We are always in close discussion with the NFU about these issues and we shall continue to pay attention to that important matter.
The Lord Bishop of Chelmsford: My Lords, I am sure that the Minister will be aware of the help given through the Farming Help Partnership to farmers facing hardship. Given the change of structures in ministerial provision, would he be willing, under the auspices of Defra, to arrange an opportunity for that partnership to meet Ministers, perhaps using the facilities of the Arthur Rank Centre with regard to rural issues?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I am well aware of the difficulties that many farmers have had over the past few years and of the very grave consequences for them and their families. Equally, it is good to record that total farm income has increased considerably in the past year. We see a very positive future for British agriculture and we will do everything we can to support it.
Lord Marlesford: My Lords, does the Minister realise that the undoubted success of his predecessor, the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, the consequent esteem in which he was held, and the regret that was widely expressed at his departure, came from the fact that he was tough with Defra and did not accept its nonsense? He questioned it and he managed it. There are few departments, other than probably the Home Office, that need more management than Defra. Will the Minister try to follow in those distinguished footsteps?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, my noble friend Lord Rooker is impossible to follow; he was a one-off and an absolutely brilliant Minister and colleague. I would always hope to learn from his example.
Baroness Mallalieu: My Lords, will the Minister take back from all sides of the House the concern about the amount of his time, however superhuman he might be, that can be devoted to what is undoubtedly shortly going to be a major crisis in the uplands? Will he take back how much expertise there is in this House, which has proved invaluable in the many agricultural crises that we have had in the past 10 years, not only in providing what I hope was helpful criticism but constructive suggestions and communication from
6 Nov 2008 : Column 321
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I understand the pressures on the upland farmers. That is why we are in close discussions with them and why so much work has been done with stakeholders on the proposals in relation to the introduction of the entry-level stewardship scheme in 2010, the final design of which will be announced later this year. The House has huge expertise in farming and in land issues in general, which is of inestimable value to my department. I am well placed to take back those views and concerns. The question of farming and food is of interest to everyone who lives in this nation. It is not unreasonable that from time to time the Minister responsible for food and farming should be in the other place.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach: My Lords, I declare an interest as a farmer and grower. I am sure that the House accepts the good intentions of the Minister and his modesty in the light of the praises that have been heaped on his predecessor. How does he propose to represent in government the great anxiety that has been caused by the European Parliament environment committee’s decision on pesticides yesterday and its impact not just on farmers and growers but on future food security?
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath: My Lords, I declare an interest as a customer of the noble Lord. I well understand the concerns about the proposed pesticide directive and the discussions in the European Parliament and in the Commission. I can reassure the House that the Government and the Secretary of State are taking a very firm view in Europe. We are raising concerns. We approve of appropriate regulation, but it needs to be proportionate and we need to see the benefits. We will continue to press that point.
Schools: Academies
11.14 am
Lord Lyell asked Her Majesty’s Government:
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Children, Schools and Families (Baroness Morgan of Drefelin): My Lords, a range of school improvement approaches are available to local authorities and the department to raise standards in schools, including academies. The National Challenge aims to secure higher standards in all secondary schools, with a focus on ensuring that all schools achieve above the floor target of 30 per cent of students achieving five good GCSEs, including English and maths. Academies are a central part of the challenge, alongside National Challenge trusts, federations and additional support from National Challenge advisers.
6 Nov 2008 : Column 322
Lord Lyell: My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that very encouraging reply. I wish to ask about a slightly detailed area. Can she confirm the enormous success of the academy in the great city of Liverpool? Some of us had an opportunity to meet prospective pupils from the Sacred Heart and Kensington primary schools. Can she confirm that all the good work being done in the academy will be available to those young children and live up to the great motto, “Only the best will do”?
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his question and allowing me to say that the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Liverpool chairs the governors of the Academy of St Francis of Assisi in Liverpool and has been a champion of the programme since it started. As the noble Lord knows, the academy is situated in a deprived area of Liverpool and, thanks to the right reverend Prelate’s efforts and those of the staff, the academy has made good progress since it opened, as Ofsted noted last year. I am sure that the right reverend Prelate and the noble Lord agree that there is more to do, but that academy, the North Liverpool Academy and the Belvedere Academy are helping to improve the life chances of pupils across Liverpool.
Lord Howarth of Newport: My Lords, does my noble friend agree that among their virtues, academies do two very valuable things; they help to bridge the gap between the maintained and independent sectors, which has had such a baleful legacy in the history of education in this country, and they attract more investment into schools in deprived areas?
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, and he gives me an opportunity to say how delighted I am that my noble friend Lord Adonis is sitting next to me on the Front Bench and how pleased I am that we in the ministerial team at the DCSF are able to continue the work he has championed on academies. Most importantly, academies do well by the children that they serve and are improving standards consistently; there is strong evidence to support this.
Baroness Walmsley: My Lords, the Liverpool academies are clearly serving their community. Will the Government consider allowing local authorities to select the sponsors for academies, based on their educational expertise and commitment to the particular community, rather than their bank balance?
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: My Lords, the noble Baroness gives me a chance to highlight the importance of the National Challenge, a programme working directly with local authorities to address the challenge of schools that are falling below the 30 per cent floor that I talked about. We are investing £400 million through the National Challenge to help those schools that have the furthest to go in terms of helping the pupils whom they serve. Academies are one option out of a very important range of support that will be negotiated and developed in partnership with local authorities. This work is going on in the department as we speak.
6 Nov 2008 : Column 323
The Lord Bishop of Liverpool: My Lords, I declare an interest. In fact, I have a personal involvement in three city academies. While the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, is in his place, I thank him for his personal work on the achievement of the academies in Liverpool. I thank also the noble Lord, Lord Lyell, for recognising the tremendous achievement of the young people in their academy in Kensington.
The Minister will be aware that in the spring of this year it was ruled that sponsors no longer needed to make a financial contribution, either to the capital costs or to the endowment of an academy. Will the noble Baroness recognise that those who entered into agreements before the spring of this year are now, in the light of the present economic downturn, finding it very difficult to raise the full sponsorship money? Can she undertake to review those agreements, so that those academy projects are not put at risk?
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: My Lords, I am very happy to hear what the right reverend Prelate says. As I said, an enormous amount of work is being undertaken, as we speak, through the National Challenge programme to work with local authorities to identify exactly what packages of help they need to support the schools in their areas. I shall be happy to look at this question and come back to him.
Lord Mawhinney: My Lords, is the Minister prepared to answer the Question posed by my noble friend Lord Lyell? Are academies the Government’s preferred model?
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: My Lords, I tried to answer the Question as well as I could. We have a preferred model, which is to provide a range of options that best suit the needs of the children and young people in a particular area. In areas that struggle and face the greatest possible challenge, an academy will almost certainly be the right and preferred option. We are absolutely committed to meeting our target of developing and opening new academies, and I know that only a couple of weeks ago the Secretary of State announced his commitment to open some new academies this year. I absolutely support the role of academies in promoting improved school results for young people.
The Earl of Listowel: My Lords, important as the academies are to the improvement of schools, does the Minister not agree that the most important factor is the quality of the teachers? Does she accept that the Government’s investment in teaching, particularly the Training and Development Agency for Schools, has tremendously improved the status of teaching and made it a significantly more attractive profession? Is that not a very welcome improvement over the past 10 years?
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin: My Lords, one of the greatest successes of academies will be the strong leadership that they bring to schools. Obviously, the increase in the number of teachers in the UK, their improved status and the financial support for teaching have also played very important roles in driving up standards in this country.
6 Nov 2008 : Column 324
India: Dalits
11.22 am
The Lord Bishop of Carlisle asked Her Majesty’s Government:
Lord Tunnicliffe: My Lords, the UK supports India’s efforts to combat caste discrimination through support for key national and state government programmes, and by working to ensure that those programmes deliver good and sustainable results for Dalits. In addition, the UK supports civil society organisations in raising Dalits’ awareness of their entitlements, empowering them to claim their rights. The UK regularly raises concerns about minority rights, with specific reference to caste issues, with the appropriate Indian authorities in Delhi and London.
The Lord Bishop of Carlisle: My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. The diocese of Carlisle has a diocesan partnership with Madras and I have strong personal links with the Bishop of Gujarat. Since last April, if the bishop or any minister in that state baptises a Dalit woman or child, he is liable to several years’ imprisonment and a large fine. In what ways can the Government protect the right of the Dalits to choose to be baptised as Christians in view of the seven Indian states that have passed anti-conversion laws?
Lord Tunnicliffe: My Lords, the Freedom of Religion Act in India was enacted in 1967. It prohibits conversion by means of inducement, allurement or the use of force, and it requires each conversion to have prior authority from the district magistrate. Anti-conversion laws are an internal matter for the Indian authorities. Nevertheless, officials from our high commission in Delhi continue to monitor religious freedom in India and had previously raised the issue with the appropriate Indian authorities. We condemn all instances where individuals are persecuted because of their faith or beliefs. The issue of religious freedom is due to be raised at the EU-India human rights dialogue in New Delhi later this year.
Baroness Rawlings: My Lords, the Minister knows that giving aid to India is DfID’s top priority, despite India’s huge economic success. India is the largest recipient of UK bilateral aid, and on 20 January this year the Prime Minister announced that he would invest another £825 million over the next three years. Does the Minister know, however, that the Dalit population has the worst poverty and health figures? How much money will DfID direct to the Dalits and how will it be invested?
Lord Tunnicliffe: My Lords, it is quite right that we devote our biggest aid programme to India. While in one sense it is a very successful country, it is also a very poor country. There are more poor people in India living on less than $1 a day than in the whole of sub-Saharan Africa. I do not have figures about the precise proportion that is directed at the Dalits, but all our programmes are directed at poor people. Some
6 Nov 2008 : Column 325
Lord Harries of Pentregarth: My Lords, is the Minister aware that in recent weeks in the state of Orissa more than 50 Dalit Christians have been killed and more than 50,000 have been displaced? Will Her Majesty’s Government press the federal Government of India to exercise their powers under Article 355 of the constitution, under which they are able to act within a state where there is internal unrest? In particular, will he urge them to bring those responsible for this to prosecution, as the 50,000 displaced people are frightened to return to their homes at the moment because of the immunity of those responsible?
Lord Tunnicliffe: My Lords, we have pressed the Government. We welcome the Indian Prime Minister’s statements condemning the attacks. The central Government have made an Article 355 order. The local government in Orissa was slow to act, but we are now pleased to see that it has taken steps. We are pleased that the central Government have continued to urge Orissa state to do things and we have expressed our concerns to the Indian authorities. Orissa will be raised in the next EU/India human rights dialogue.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno: My Lords, yesterday we celebrated the realisation of part of the American dream. In all continents there are dreams. What are the Government doing to ensure that none of our new immigration or visa regulations will hinder the poorest and the most vulnerable in our world from achieving their potential and contributing as best as they can to our communities?
Lord Tunnicliffe: My Lords, some poor Minister had to be the first to deny the American dream. There are 167 million Dalits in India and immigration to the UK will not play any significant part in relieving their problems. The problems faced by Dalits have to be solved by Indians and by programmes to support them. We work hard in those programmes, supporting the Indian Government. The rules for immigration to this country were well set out by my noble friend yesterday. Programmes to give positive discrimination to a significant proportion of the Dalit community, which the Indian Government have been running since 1950, mean that those who have been so favoured will be equipped as high-value-adding individuals and would qualify for possible immigration to this country.
| Next Section | Back to Table of Contents | Lords Hansard Home Page |