House of Lords Journal 241 (Session 2007-08)


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Monday 10 November 2008

The House met at 2.30pm.

The following Lords Spiritual and Temporal were present:

Hayman, B. (Lord Speaker)

Adams of Craigielea, B.
Addington, L.
Adebowale, L.
Adonis, L.
Allenby of Megiddo, V.
Alton of Liverpool, L.
Amos, B.
Ampthill, L.
Anderson of Swansea, L.
Andrews, B.
Anelay of St Johns, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Armstrong of Ilminster, L.
Arran, E.
Ashley of Stoke, L.
Astor of Hever, L.
Attlee, E.
Avebury, L.
Bach, L.
Baker of Dorking, L.
Barker, B.
Barnett, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L.
Bates, L.
Berkeley, L.
Best, L.
Bew, L.
Bhatia, L.
Bhattacharyya, L.
Bilimoria, L.
Billingham, B.
Bilston, L.
Birt, L.
Blackstone, B.
Blackwell, L.
Blaker, L.
Bledisloe, V.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Boothroyd, B.
Borrie, L.
Boston of Faversham, L.
Bottomley of Nettlestone, B.
Bowness, L.
Boyd of Duncansby, L.
Brabazon of Tara, L.
Bradley, L.
Bradshaw, L.
Bragg, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Bridgeman, V.
Bridges, L.
Brooke of Alverthorpe, L.
Brooke of Sutton Mandeville, L.
Brookman, L.
Brooks of Tremorfa, L.
Brougham and Vaux, L.
Burnett, L.
Burns, L.
Buscombe, B.
Butler of Brockwell, L.
Butler-Sloss, B.
Caithness, E.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Campbell of Alloway, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carlile of Berriew, L.
Carnegy of Lour, B.
Carter of Barnes, L.
Carter of Coles, L.
Cathcart, E.
Chandos, V.
Chapman, B.
Chester, Bp.
Chorley, L.
Christopher, L.
Clark of Windermere, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Clinton-Davis, L.
Cobbold, L.
Colville of Culross, V.
Colwyn, L.
Cope of Berkeley, L.
Corbett of Castle Vale, L.
Cotter, L.
Courtown, E.
Cox, B.
Craig of Radley, L.
Craigavon, V.
Crawley, B.
Crickhowell, L.
Crisp, L.
Cunningham of Felling, L.
Currie of Marylebone, L.
Darzi of Denham, L.
Davidson of Glen Clova, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L.
De Mauley, L.
Dear, L.
Denham, L.
Desai, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dixon-Smith, L.
Donoughue, L.
D’Souza, B.
Dubs, L.
Dundee, E.
Dykes, L.
Eatwell, L.
Eccles, V.
Eccles of Moulton, B.
Elder, L.
Elliott of Morpeth, L.
Elton, L.
Elystan-Morgan, L.
Emerton, B.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Evans of Temple Guiting, L.
Evans of Watford, L.
Falkender, B.
Falkland, V.
Falkner of Margravine, B.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Faulkner of Worcester, L.
Fearn, L.
Filkin, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.

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Fookes, B.
Ford, B.
Forsyth of Drumlean, L.
Foster of Bishop Auckland, L.
Foulkes of Cumnock, L.
Fraser of Carmyllie, L.
Freeman, L.
Fyfe of Fairfield, L.
Gale, B.
Garden of Frognal, B.
Gardner of Parkes, B.
Garel-Jones, L.
Gavron, L.
Geddes, L.
George, L.
Gibson of Market Rasen, B.
Giddens, L.
Glasgow, E.
Glenarthur, L.
Glentoran, L.
Golding, B.
Goodhart, L.
Goodlad, L.
Gordon of Strathblane, L.
Gould of Potternewton, B.
Graham of Edmonton, L.
Grantchester, L.
Greaves, L.
Greenfield, B.
Greengross, B.
Greenway, L.
Gregson, L.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Grocott, L.
Hamilton of Epsom, L.
Hamwee, B.
Hanham, B.
Hanningfield, L.
Harries of Pentregarth, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Harrison, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskel, L.
Haskins, L.
Haworth, L.
Hayhoe, L.
Henig, B.
Henley, L.
Higgins, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, L.
Hollick, L.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Hooper, B.
Howard of Rising, L.
Howarth of Breckland, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Howe, E.
Howe of Aberavon, L.
Howe of Idlicote, B.
Howell of Guildford, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Howie of Troon, L.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Hunt of Wirral, L.
Inglewood, L.
Irvine of Lairg, L.
James of Blackheath, L.
Janner of Braunstone, L.
Jay of Ewelme, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jenkin of Roding, L.
Jones, L.
Jones of Cheltenham, L.
Jones of Whitchurch, B.
Jopling, L.
Jordan, L.
Judd, L.
Kerr of Kinlochard, L.
Kilclooney, L.
King of Bridgwater, L.
King of West Bromwich, L.
Kingsland, L.
Kingsmill, B.
Kinnock, L.
Kirkhill, L.
Kirkwood of Kirkhope, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Laird, L.
Laming, L.
Lamont of Lerwick, L.
Lawson of Blaby, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
Leach of Fairford, L.
Lee of Trafford, L.
Leitch, L.
Lester of Herne Hill, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Lipsey, L.
Listowel, E.
Liverpool, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Low of Dalston, L.
Lucas, L.
Luce, L.
Ludford, B.
Luke, L.
Lyell, L.
McAlpine of West Green, L.
McColl of Dulwich, L.
McDonagh, B.
Macdonald of Tradeston, L.
MacGregor of Pulham Market, L.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
MacKenzie of Culkein, L.
Mackenzie of Framwellgate, L.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Maclennan of Rogart, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Malloch-Brown, L.
Mar, C.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Marlesford, L.
Marsh, L.
Masham of Ilton, B.
Massey of Darwen, B.
Mawhinney, L.
Mawson, L.
Maxton, L.
Meacher, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Molyneaux of Killead, L.
Monson, L.
Montagu of Beaulieu, L.
Montrose, D.
Moonie, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morgan of Huyton, B.
Morris of Aberavon, L.
Morris of Bolton, B.
Morris of Handsworth, L.
Morris of Manchester, L.
Moynihan, L.
Naseby, L.
Neill of Bladen, L.
Neuberger, B.
Neville-Jones, B.
Newby, L.
Newcastle, Bp.
Newton of Braintree, L.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Northbourne, L.
Northbrook, L.
Northesk, E.
Northover, B.
Norton of Louth, L.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
O’Cathain, B.
O’Neill of Clackmannan, L.
Oppenheim-Barnes, B.
Ouseley, L.
Palmer, L.
Pannick, L.
Patel, L.
Patel of Blackburn, L.
Patel of Bradford, L.
Patten, L.
Paul, L.
Pearson of Rannoch, L.
Pendry, L.
Peston, L.
Pilkington of Oxenford, L.
Pitkeathley, B.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Ponsonby of Shulbrede, L.
Powell of Bayswater, L.
Prashar, B.
Prosser, B.
Prys-Davies, L.
Puttnam, L.
Quin, B.
Quinton, L.
Quirk, L.
Radice, L.
Ramsbotham, L.
Rawlings, B.
Razzall, L.
Rea, L.
Reay, L.
Redesdale, L.
Rees-Mogg, L.
Rendell of Babergh, B.
Rennard, L.
Richard, L.
Roberts of Conwy, L.
Rodgers of Quarry Bank, L.
Rogan, L.
Rooker, L.
Rosser, L.
Rosslyn, E.
Rowe-Beddoe, L.
Rowlands, L.
Royall of Blaisdon, B.
Ryder of Wensum, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
St John of Fawsley, L.
Sawyer, L.
Seccombe, B.
Selborne, E.
Selsdon, L.

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Sewel, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Sharples, B.
Shaw of Northstead, L.
Sheikh, L.
Sheldon, L.
Shephard of Northwold, B.
Sheppard of Didgemere, L.
Shrewsbury, E.
Shutt of Greetland, L.
Simon, V.
Skelmersdale, L.
Slim, V.
Slynn of Hadley, L.
Smith of Clifton, L.
Smith of Finsbury, L.
Smith of Gilmorehill, B.
Snape, L.
Soley, L.
Southwark, Bp.
Steel of Aikwood, L.
Stern, B.
Stevens of Ludgate, L.
Stewartby, L.
Stone of Blackheath, L.
Strabolgi, L.
Strathclyde, L.
Swinfen, L.
Symons of Vernham Dean, B.
Tanlaw, L.
Taverne, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Taylor of Bolton, B.
Taylor of Holbeach, L.
Taylor of Warwick, L.
Temple-Morris, L.
Tenby, V.
Teverson, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Macclesfield, L.
Thomas of Walliswood, B.
Thomas of Winchester, B.
Thornton, B.
Tope, L.
Tordoff, L.
Trefgarne, L.
Trenchard, V.
Trimble, L.
Trumpington, B.
Truscott, L.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Turnberg, L.
Turner of Camden, B.
Tyler, L.
Uddin, B.
Ullswater, V.
Verma, B.
Waddington, L.
Wade of Chorlton, L.
Wakeham, L.
Waldegrave of North Hill, L.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.
Warner, L.
Warnock, B.
Warsi, B.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
Watson of Invergowrie, L.
Watson of Richmond, L.
Wedderburn of Charlton, L.
West of Spithead, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Wilcox, B.
Wilkins, B.
Williams of Elvel, L.
Williamson of Horton, L.
Windlesham, L.
Woolmer of Leeds, L.
Wright of Richmond, L.
Young of Hornsey, B.
Young of Norwood Green, L.

Prayers were read by the Lord Bishop of Newcastle.

Public Business

1European Union Emissions Trading Scheme: aviation A question was asked by Lord Berkeley and answered by Lord Adonis.

2Housing: value added tax A question was asked by Lord Cope of Berkeley and answered by Lord Davies of Oldham.

3Railways: Channel Tunnel A question was asked by Lord Dykes and answered by Lord Adonis.

4Ethiopia A question was asked by Baroness Rawlings and answered by Lord Tunnicliffe.

5Planning Bill The report stage was continued, beginning with amendment 42. Amendments were agreed to. The report stage was adjourned.

6Social Security (Miscellaneous Amendments) (No. 4) Regulations 2008 Baroness Thomas of Winchester moved to resolve, that this House deplores the way that the Social Security (Miscellaneous Amendments) (No. 4) Regulations 2008, laid before the House on 15 September, cut the backdating period for pension credit, housing benefit and council tax benefit in most cases from 12 months to 3 months, and were:
(a) presented with inadequate evidence to support the policy; and
(b) laid during the summer recess to come into force on the day Parliament returned, thus not allowing Parliament to consider them before they came into effect;
and calls on Her Majesty’s Government to revoke the Regulations because they are likely to increase the number of evictions, and cause particular hardship to older pensioners and those with mental health impairments (SI 2008/2424). After debate, the motion was disagreed to (see division list).

7Planning Bill The report stage was continued, beginning with amendment 103. Amendments were agreed to. The report stage was adjourned after amendment 121G.

The House adjourned at 10.03pm until 2.30pm on Tuesday 11 November.

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Papers

All statutory instruments laid before the House are accompanied by an Explanatory Memorandum presented by command of Her Majesty, unless otherwise indicated.

Statutory Instruments (Standing Order 71)

The following negative instruments, having been laid before the House on 7 November, were ordered to lie on the Table.

1(1)Merchant Shipping (Training and Certification) (Amendment) Regulations 2008     (2851)

  (2)Recovery of Taxes etc Due in Other Member States (Amendment of Section 134 of the Finance Act 2002) Regulations 2008     (2871)

laid under the European Communities Act 1972.

2Police (Amendment) Regulations 2008, laid under the Police Act 1996.     (2865)

3Police (Complaints and Misconduct) (Amendment) Regulations 2008, laid under the Police Reform Act 2002.     (2866)

Negative Instruments

The following instruments were laid before the House:

1REACH Enforcement Regulations 2008, laid under the European Communities Act 1972.     (2852)

2National Health Service (Travel Expenses and Remission of Charges) Amendment (No. 2) Regulations 2008, laid under the National Health Service Act 2006.     (2868)

3Land Registration Act 2002 (Amendment) Order 2008, laid under the Land Registration Act 2002.     (2872)

4Crossrail (Planning Appeals) (Written Representations Procedure) (England) Regulations 2008, laid under the Crossrail Act 2008.     (2908)

Papers not subject to parliamentary proceedings

The following papers were laid before the House:

1Twentieth Report of the Independent Monitoring Commission, laid under the Northern Ireland (Monitoring Commission etc.) Act 2003.

2Accounts for 2006-07 of the House of Commons Members’ Fund, together with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General, laid under the House of Commons Members’ Fund Act 1939.

Judicial Business

1Moran (FC) (Appellant) v Manchester City Council (Respondents) (England) The appeal of Sharon Moran was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 15 December.

2Gray (Respondent) v Thames Trains and others (Appellants) (England) The appeal of Thames Trains Limited and Network Rail Infrastructure Limited was presented and it was ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 15 December.

3Gray (Original Respondent and Cross-appellant) v Thames Trains and others (Original Appellants and Cross-respondents) (England) The cross-appeal of Kerrie Francis Gray was presented and it was

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ordered that in accordance with Standing Order VI the statement and appendix thereto be lodged on or before 15 December.

4SH (Palestinian Territories) (Petitioner) v Secretary of State for the Home Department (Respondent) The petition of SH praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee.

5SCA Packaging Limited (Petitioners) v Boyle (Respondent) (Northern Ireland) The petition of SCA Packaging Limited praying for leave to appeal was presented and referred to an Appeal Committee (lodged 7 November).

6R (on the application of Ahmad) (Respondent) v Mayor and Burgesses of the London Borough of Newham (Appellants) The petition of the appellants praying that the time for lodging the statement and appendix and setting down the cause for hearing might be extended to 1 December (the agents for the respondent consenting thereto) was presented; and it was ordered as prayed.

7Gray (Original Respondent and Cross-appellant) v Thames Trains and others (Original Appellants and Cross-respondents) It was ordered that the original appellants be allowed to prosecute the appeal without giving the usual security for costs as required by Standing Order.

Division

Social Security (Miscellaneous Amendments) (No. 4) Regulations 2008

Baroness Thomas of Winchester moved to resolve that this House deplores the way that the Social Security (Miscellaneous Amendments) (No. 4) Regulations 2008, laid before the House on 15 September, cut the backdating period for pension credit, housing benefit and council tax benefit in most cases from 12 months to 3 months, and were:(a) presented with inadequate evidence to support the policy; and(b) laid during the summer recess to come into force on the day Parliament returned, thus not allowing Parliament to consider them before they came into effect;and calls on Her Majesty’s Government to revoke the Regulations because they are likely to increase the number of evictions, and cause particular hardship to older pensioners and those with mental health impairments (SI 2008/2424). The House divided:

Contents54
Not-Contents84

Contents

Addington, L. [Teller]
Barker, B.
Best, L.
Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury, B.
Bradshaw, L.
Burnett, L.
Cameron of Dillington, L.
Clement-Jones, L.
Cotter, L.
Craigavon, V.
De Mauley, L.
Dholakia, L.
Dykes, L.
Fearn, L.
Finlay of Llandaff, B.
Fookes, B.
Garden of Frognal, B.
Glasgow, E.
Greaves, L.
Greengross, B.
Hamwee, B.
Harris of Richmond, B.
Kirkwood of Kirkhope, L.
Knight of Collingtree, B.
Lee of Trafford, L.
Linklater of Butterstone, B.
Listowel, E.
Livsey of Talgarth, L.
Low of Dalston, L.
Lyell, L.
McNally, L.
Maddock, B.
Maginnis of Drumglass, L.
Mar and Kellie, E.
Meacher, B.
Miller of Chilthorne Domer, B.
Neuberger, B.
Nicholson of Winterbourne, B.
Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay, L.
Razzall, L.
Rennard, L.
St. John of Bletso, L.
Sharp of Guildford, B.
Shutt of Greetland, L. [Teller]
Smith of Clifton, L.
Teverson, L.
Thomas of Gresford, L.
Thomas of Winchester, B.
Tope, L.
Tyler, L.
Ullswater, V.
Wallace of Saltaire, L.
Walmsley, B.
Walpole, L.

Not Contents

Adams of Craigielea, B.
Adonis, L.
Anderson of Swansea, L.
Andrews, B.
Archer of Sandwell, L.
Bach, L.
Bassam of Brighton, L. [Teller]
Berkeley, L.
Billingham, B.
Bilston, L.
Blackstone, B.
Boyd of Duncansby, L.

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Bradley, L.
Brennan, L.
Brett, L.
Brookman, L.
Campbell-Savours, L.
Carter of Barnes, L.
Carter of Coles, L.
Clarke of Hampstead, L.
Crawley, B.
Darzi of Denham, L.
Davidson of Glen Clova, L.
Davies of Coity, L.
Davies of Oldham, L. [Teller]
Donoughue, L.
Dubs, L.
Evans of Parkside, L.
Farrington of Ribbleton, B.
Ford, B.
Foster of Bishop Auckland, L.
Foulkes of Cumnock, L.
Gale, B.
Griffiths of Burry Port, L.
Grocott, L.
Harris of Haringey, L.
Hart of Chilton, L.
Haskins, L.
Haworth, L.
Hilton of Eggardon, B.
Hollis of Heigham, B.
Howarth of Newport, L.
Howells of St. Davids, B.
Hoyle, L.
Hughes of Woodside, L.
Hunt of Chesterton, L.
Hunt of Kings Heath, L.
Jay of Paddington, B.
Jones, L.
Jones of Whitchurch, B.
Kirkhill, L.
Layard, L.
Lea of Crondall, L.
McDonagh, B.
McIntosh of Haringey, L.
McIntosh of Hudnall, B.
McKenzie of Luton, L.
Malloch-Brown, L.
Maxton, L.
Moonie, L.
Morgan, L.
Morgan of Drefelin, B.
Morris of Handsworth, L.
O’Neill of Clackmannan, L.
Patel of Bradford, L.
Plant of Highfield, L.
Prosser, B.
Quin, B.
Rooker, L.
Rosser, L.
Rowlands, L.
Sawyer, L.
Simon, V.
Snape, L.
Soley, L.
Taylor of Blackburn, L.
Thornton, B.
Tunnicliffe, L.
Warner, L.
Warwick of Undercliffe, B.
West of Spithead, L.
Whitaker, B.
Whitty, L.
Young of Norwood Green, L.