Examination of Witnesses (Questions 2155
- 2159)
WEDNESDAY 19 MARCH 2008
Mr Richard Hooper CBE
Q2155 Chairman:
Mr Hooper, thank you very much indeed for coming. It is beyond
the call of duty to come back and give evidence, but we hope that
with your experience you might like to be free and look at what
you learned in your time there. As you know, what we are doing
is the news ownership, the media, the impact that has on the public
and the impact that has on the citizen. The Communications Act
says that "It shall be the principal duty of Ofcom, in carrying
out their functions: (a) to further the interests of citizens
in relation to communication matters; and (b) to further the interests
of consumers in relevant markets, where appropriate by promoting
competition". Can you just remind us how you would distinguish
between the interests of the citizens and the interests of the
consumers?
Mr Hooper: Good morning, it is a pleasure to
be here. Can I just say that I am here as a private citizen, perhaps
an expert witness with 45 years in the media and communications
world since I joined the BBC in 1963. I am not here representing
Ofcom. I left Ofcom two years ago; I am hugely proud of what Ofcom
has done but I am not here representing their views. Also, I am
now, for my sins, chairing the independent review of the postal
services sector for the Secretary of State, John Hutton, and clearly
I am not talking about that area, although it is a communication
industry matter and maybe on a later occasion I could come back
wearing that hat. One final point before I answer your question,
as a matter of principle I have found both in my life in the public
sector and private sector that I do not comment on and critique
my successors. I find that being a regulator is tough enough without
the previous management saying, "Well, of course, I can do
it better". What is the difference between a citizen and
a consumer? For me during my time at Ofcom there was actually
an essential clarity to it which is that if you say that that
is a broadcasting market and it is properly competitive and open
and inside that space somebody called a "consumer" is
operating, they have a contract to buy and sell and so on. My
interest in the citizen and I think your interest in the citizen
happens as you come to the edges of the market. It is where the
market is no longer providing things that we, as a society, feel
are valuable. Indeed, I think the core of my definition of public
service broadcasting is that it is those things that would not
be provided if it was left entirely to a competitive market. I
think therefore the citizen issues arise at that blurred boundary
condition between the market and public service and public interest.
I think that during my life in this wonderful industry I have
always spent a lot of time on that intersection between the public
sector and the private sector because I think that is where the
big issues arise. I hope that makes sense.
Q2156 Chairman:
Can you just tell me how that interrelates with the definition
of a public interest?
Mr Hooper: I think it is exactly where the public
interest emerges, that is to say it is in the public interest
that we should have high quality news media that are impartial,
accurate and interrogative. Will the market by itself produce
that? Some of it, but I think the general view of British society—certainly
my view—is that probably not enough of it and therefore
there is some need for a mechanism to ensure that that happens.
Q2157 Chairman:
So it is an extra above the market.
Mr Hooper: Yes, I think it is an extra above
the market. Having said that—there is a crucial point here—it
does not mean that we are talking about ghetto public service
broadcasting. It is easy to go from that definition and say that
therefore the BBC and Channel 4 should only do stuff beyond the
market. That is clearly unrealistic if only because both the BBC
and Channel 4 need large audiences; the BBC is paid for by everybody
and therefore their need to reach the population is extremely
intense, but also if there are more "popular", more
commercial programmes within the mix then we know from cross-promotion
and other techniques that that audience can be drawn to the more
public service output. That is a difficult ratio but it is there.
Q2158 Chairman:
How would you define citizenship duties in relation to the news
media?
Mr Hooper: I think it is about some core values.
I think first of all accuracy. As you know, the prime purpose
of the Ofcom Content Board is what is called Tier 1, negative
content regulation. Taking the torch from one of your members,
Lady Howe, who was Chairman of the Broadcasting Standards Council,
negative content regulation has to do with what I call the six
horsemen of the Apocalypse: harm and offence, accuracy and impartiality,
fairness and privacy. Those are the absolutely central values.
In broadcasting in this country, as a result of the statute, we
expect broadcast media to be impartial. That is not true of printed
media. In terms of the citizen, I think if you go through those
values, accuracy is a crucial one; impartiality is a crucial one;
fairness and privacy are extremely important. Also I think the
ability of what I call an independent news to interrogate those
in power and opinion formers is necessary; there is sometimes,
in our political debate, a certain amount of spin and it is quite
useful if you have a news media on behalf of the citizens interrogating
to the substance behind the spin. When I joined the BBC in 1963
I remember one of the most iconic moments. I was working on a
programme that some of you may remember called Radio Newsreel
and we had an editorial meeting. I was just a very green general
trainee and I was asked whether I had a news item for the day.
I said, "Yes. Three months ago a minister" (I think
it was the home secretary) "said something about `in three
months' time X will happen'. I think that is quite a good story
and we should follow it up." The response from the editor
was, "There is no hook to hang it on today". I said,
"But he definitely said that three months ago, and it is
now three months". He said, "It is not in the newspapers".
In those days the news agenda of the BBC was very driven by "if
it was in the newspapers". I think that has fundamentally
changed and I think today you would not have that conversation.
Q2159 Chairman:
That was a deferential age when your BBC reporters went up and
asked the prime minister whether he would like to actually say
something to the waiting British public.
Mr Hooper: I think interrogation is an important
part of citizenship values in news media.
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