Examination of Witnesses (Questions 2560
- 2579)
TUESDAY 20 MAY 2008
Lord Rothermere, Mr Charles Sinclair and Mr Kevin
Beatty
Q2560 Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall:
In the round in the sense that that newspaper would be expected
to generate from other sources the income that would cover that
additional journalism; or would it look to the whole Group for
support?
Mr Beatty: On occasions we look to the whole
Group for support but we try to run each of our newspapers to
their maximum potential.
Q2561 Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall:
It has been put to us by a number of other witnesses for whom
I entirely accept you are not responsible, but nonetheless they
have put it to us, that there has been a significant diminution
across the board in the provision of conventional news-gathering
of a reasonably expensive and well-researched type; and that is
not just to do with your newspapers, as I say, but many others
as well. I am sorry to press you on this point, but is there no
connection between that fact, the rise of what we call
the "lifestyle" type of journalism, and the commercial
interests of groups or proprietors?
Mr Beatty: I think the best response to try
and give you a flavour for how our Group operates is contained
in the evidence that our senior Editor Peter Wright gave to this
Committee, where he demonstrated through an example that those
issues are just not prevalent within our organisation. We try
desperately hard to make sure that our editors are given the resources
to produce the type of newspapers that we know our readers respond
well to, and make the newspapers commercially sound.
Q2562 Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall:
I would infer from what you have said you think that the shift,
if there is a shift, away from conventional journalism, as we
used to understand it, towards journalism which is directed more,
say, towards entertainment or issues about the way we live our
lives day-to-day, that that is actually being driven by your readership?
Mr Beatty: I think it has been driven by our
editors, and I also do not accept that in our case we specifically
move away from your description of conventional journalism. The
evidence that Peter Wright gave to this Committee, the example
he gave, was actually about investing in journalists who actually
investigate; and the specific example, I think, was a very expensive
example of having a reporter in North Korea.
Q2563 Lord Maxton:
Obviously you are interest is circulation, copy etc. Certainly
the Daily Mail does a lot of bulk selling to organisations,
and also does give-aways in terms of DVDs, CDs or whatever. Is
the Board involved in the decisions about that sort of thing,
as opposed to the journalist side of it?
Mr Beatty: The main Board would not be involved
in the specifics of how we choose to market any of our titles.
Q2564 Lord Maxton:
It is entirely the editor?
Mr Beatty: That is the responsibility of the
editor in conjunction with the commercial management. Marketing
in the form of DVDs, in the form of CDs, how we decide to sample
our newspaper, how we decide to go about encouraging more people
to take our newspapers, that is actually done within the operating
divisions.
Q2565 Lord Maxton:
You are not concerned that maybe your bulk sales are a major part
of your circulation and, therefore, sold presumably at a considerably
discounted price?
Mr Beatty: The situation for us is that the
auditing of newspaper sales is very transparent. Anybody can look
at our newspaper circulation and break down and see exactly where
we are deriving those sales. Our view is that, in a market which
is contracting, it is our responsibility to use whatever legitimate
device we can see to introduce our newspapers to new customers.
Lord Rothermere: May I interject there and say
that it is not true that the vast bulk of our sales are through
this discounted manner, because it is actually 100,000 copies
and it is directed towards airlines. In consultation with our
advertisers who like that particular type of sale, these copies
are bought by people who distribute them and they are not free.
Q2566 Lord Maxton:
I did not say they were free; I just said they were discounted?
Lord Rothermere: Yes, you did.
Chairman: Let us move on to another aspect
of editorial independence and the appointment of editors and how
that is done.
Q2567 Lord King of Bridgwater:
You have made it very clear that the Board basically stands back
from interference in the operation of the newspapers, and there
is a very high standard of editorial independence. Does that apply
to the editor-in-chief as well? Reading your submission one almost
gets the impression that the boards pass that over to the editor-in-chief,
who does have very considerable power and appoints, I think, all
the editors of the national newspapers—and maybe the regional
ones as well, I do not know if that is the case. Does the editorial
independence apply also in terms of the activities of the editor-in-chief
to the other editors?
Lord Rothermere: For clarification, Paul Dacre
does not appoint the editors and he is not editor-in-chief of
the regional newspaper editors. Nor does Paul Dacre make sole
decision over which editors there are within Associated Newspapers;
that is done in conjunction with me and the Nominations Committee
of the Board, which makes the recommendation to the Board. I am
obviously not involved in the day-to-day management activities
with the editors, but certainly (and I do not wish to speak for
him) if he was here I think he would take very much the line that
he believes that the editors underneath him should have the independence
and the freedom to be able to put in their newspapers what they
think.
Q2568 Lord King of Bridgwater:
Nonetheless, he obviously in a very powerful position. His appointment
is a matter for the Board, is that correct?
Lord Rothermere: His appointment was made by
my father in conjunction with the Board, yes.
Q2569 Lord King of Bridgwater:
With the Nominations Committee or with the whole Board?
Lord Rothermere: I am not clear of that process;
I was not privy to it.
Q2570 Lord King of Bridgwater:
If some tragedy occurred, or there happened to be a vacancy, what
would you see as the procedure going forward?
Lord Rothermere: I think that the Board would
have to consult and need to sit down and think about whether we
wanted to continue with an editor-in-chief at all; and then, if
we decided that we did, we would have to go through a recruitment
process.
Q2571 Chairman:
You have to be happy, do you not, because you are Chairman of
the Nominations Committee?
Lord Rothermere: Yes, I am.
Q2572 Chairman:
That means you yourself have to be happy with the appointment
of any of the national editors?
Lord Rothermere: Yes, that is true.
Q2573 Lord King of Bridgwater:
Just to be clear about your position, you describe it as executive
in part and non-executive in other parts. Actually what you are,
is it not fair to say, you are executive; you are a member of
the executive share scheme, I think, all three of our witnesses
here today?
Lord Rothermere: Yes.
Q2574 Lord King of Bridgwater:
It is fairer to say that you are an executive chairman but a good
delegator, is that right?
Lord Rothermere: I would say that is exactly
right!
Q2575 Lord Corbett of Castle Vale:
I am trying to get a picture of when, if ever, any of you ever
talk to the Editor of the Daily Mail. Do you?
Lord Rothermere: Yes, of course.
Q2576 Lord Corbett of Castle Vale:
Right. Because the impression I have got is that you leave it
all to this editor-in-chief. For example, would the Board on occasion
think it would be useful to have a presentation from the Editor
of the Daily Mail on where he sees the paper going over
the next couple of years—perhaps as part of the budget process,
I do not know? Would that kind of thing happen?
Lord Rothermere: Paul Dacre is a member of the
Board, and when the subject of Associated Newspapers arises he
plays a part in that discussion.
Q2577 Lord Corbett of Castle Vale:
I am trying to get this clear. The Editor of the Daily Mail
would not normally make any presentation to the Board. If he has
got things to say about the shape of the paper and where it was
going he would do that to Mr Dacre, is that right?
Lord Rothermere: Mr Dacre is the Editor of the
Daily Mail and the Board has not asked him to present to
the Board on where he feels the future editorial stance of the
paper should go. He has not felt the need to do so because the
paper circulation is doing remarkably well.
Q2578 Chairman:
It slightly beggars belief that Mr Dacre is on the Board and talks
about the national newspapers, and if a particular issue comes
up—a campaign which is going wrong or is extremely controversial—no-one
on the Board says at this point, "Are you really sure this
is the right thing to be doing?"
Lord Rothermere: I cannot speak for what other
members of the Board say privately to Mr Dacre, but it is never
a subject of official discussion at the Board.
Q2579 Chairman:
They might quietly say to him, "What the hell are you up
to?"
Lord Rothermere: I do not know.
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