Examination of Witnesses (Questions 860
- 879)
860. There has now been a position taken by
Crossrail in terms of what it is proposing for this station described
today, and we will come on to that. In terms of what was proposed,
what you have just described is your understanding of the situation?
(Mr West) Yes, that is correct, my Lords.
861. Do you have any view that you can give
as to the ability to construct a lift system within those works
as were proposed?
(Mr West) Yes, my Lords. Clearly from the information that
is available to us and my local knowledge of the station, if you
go back to the previous slide which shows the island platforms
then it would be a relatively simple operation to sink a lift
from the concourse which you see above there, literally sink the
lift down a vertical shaft which will give you direct access onto
the platform. The platform itself is considerably wide so it would
allow in relatively easy terms the construction of a lift shaft
to serve two platforms at Manor Park Station. Insofar as platform
1 is concerned, which is on the next slide, the constraint at
Manor Park, which you can just about see from this slide, is that
the platforms are very narrow; but on the proposals that have
been submitted to Parliament as part of the works for Manor Park
those platforms are extended eastwards towards the left-hand side
of the slide.[49]
That then allows widened platforms to be constructed, and then
allows the possibility to sink a lift shaft to provide direct
access to that platform. All in all, in engineering terms, I would
argue that it is a relatively simple engineering job to perform.
862. That was in the context of what was previously
proposed, is that right?
(Mr West) That is correct, yes.
863. We have looked at the question of the alternative
provision that is suggested in respect of Forest Gate. Can we
go on then to slide 19.[50]
Is that the next place we should go to, Mr West?
(Mr West) Yes, that now takes us to the case
for Maryland. This slide shows the entrance to Maryland Station
which, as you see, has five steps.
864. Moving on to slide 20.[51]
(Mr West) This actually shows the walk route
from Maryland to Stratford, or Stratford to Maryland. Perhaps
if I could explain how complicated that route is to a pedestrian
or to a person with mobility impairment. The walk route from Maryland
to Stratford is a distance of 840 metres. There has been some
discussion about that figure this morning. Perhaps if I could
clear that up. That distance is the distance that Newham have
taken from the TFL journey planner which is the shortest walk
route, as suggested by the journey planner. The actual walk route
itself from Maryland to Stratford necessitates crossing the road
no less than five times and weaving passed street furniture and
other obstacles, which are shown in the next slide.[52]
865. Have you done this walk?
(Mr West) I have. Even if this journey
is undertaken by an accessible bus, which has been referred to
this morning—
866. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: You
were very helpful on the previous one where you showed where the
bus stop was exactly in location to the station entrance, as I
see you have got a bus stop which looks very close northbound,
that is going towards Forest Gate I presume, is it not?
(Mr West) I am sorry, my Lord, are we talking about the bus
stop shown in this picture here?
867. Yes. You keep talking about walking. It
is very unlikely, I take your point, that somebody in a wheelchair
is going to go that 840 metres. Part of the analysis we had this
morning was total and you had to look at the holistic picture,
so to speak. Where is the bus stop for Stratford?
(Mr West) This photograph actually shows the route from Stratford
to Maryland. We are about halfway at this particular point.
868. Where is the bus stop in relation to Maryland
Station?
(Mr West) That is on the next slide, my Lord.
869. Is it right outside the station?
(Mr West) This slide here, you can probably just make out
on the bus stop flag it is actually signed as Maryland Station.[53]
That is the stop for Maryland Station where you would get off
by bus if you came from Stratford.
870. How many metres from the station?
(Mr West) It is quite considerable. It is some considerable
distance from the station because it is actually on the wrong
side of the road. As you can see from that picture, the stop is
not accessible. The bus does not pull into the kerb. There is
a significant amount of guard-railing around it. To actually get
from Maryland Station to that bus stop you have to follow the
pedestrian walking northbound. Roughly where you see that lamppost
there is a crossing facility. You have to cross the road there
and then continue north-eastwards and cross a zebra crossing to
reach Maryland Station. It is some considerable distance away.
871. MR REED: We have dealt with the
walk route. Just looking at the position in respect of buses generally,
not only for Maryland but also for Manor Park, are there any comments
you want to make on the accessibility difficulties or benefits
of using a bus system as well as the train system?
(Mr West) Yes, my Lords. We have heard evidence this morning
to suggest that if the journey between the station is served by
an accessible bus then effectively that makes the journey convenient
and possible. What I would say to that is, one has to be aware
of the difficulties facing not just mobility-impaired persons
but mothers or fathers with pushchairs, double-buggies, shopping
and shopping trolleys. My Lords, I do not know if any of you have
travelled on buses in the school peak. You are probably aware
that transport for schoolchildren in London is free and the buses
not just in Newham but throughout London are considerably well-used
at the moment. Often it is difficult for an able-bodied person,
let alone a mother or father with bags, shopping, trolleys and
double-buggies, to actually get on the bus and make the journey.
The point I also want to make is that there is also restricted
space within the bus to accommodate wheelchairs and pushchairs.
It is certainly the case that if a disabled user in a wheelchair
tries to get on a bus and the bus is actually full up with pushchairs
then the driver has to say to the wheelchair user "Sorry,
I'm full. You'll have to get onto the next bus". I put it
to you, the journey as proposed by bus between, for instance,
Maryland and Stratford is not as easy as I think others have suggested.
872. LORD SNAPE: Mr West, forgive me,
would it not be a cheaper solution then to provide more buses
rather than to make dramatic alterations to Victorian buildings
or 1960s buildings? I see the point you are seeking to make but
we have an integrated transport system in London, or so the Mayor
and his rivals tell us. Is not the solution to put on more buses
rather than change station buildings and walking routes etc?
(Mr West) That is a fair point, my Lord, but more buses have
been put on and they get busier so we put on more buses and they
get busier and we put on more buses and then they got slower.
The argument is a circular one. In the ideal world you would put
on so many buses you would have adequate capacity to cater for
all users.
873. MR REED: Looking at where those
buses will go to, it is suggested that they will go to the Stratford
Station which is accessible. Are there any comments you want to
make on the Stratford Station and the extent to which that is
an appropriate alternative for people wanting to access the Crossrail
system?
(Mr West) You
will be aware, my Lords, that Stratford is an extremely busy place
at the moment with a minor local event taking place a few years'
hence, and also a large shopping centre being built. The Stratford
City shopping development is one of the largest shopping centres
in Britain that is currently under construction. We also have
to accommodate an increasingly large workforce which will be soon
arriving at the station to start the construction of all these
venues for the London Olympics. Special bus services are being
provided to cater for those construction workers. Added to that
there is the influx of regular commuters who are travelling through
and to and from Stratford on a daily basis. Stratford is a major
interchange with the Jubilee Line, the Central Line, the Great
Eastern Lines and now the London Overground Line, previously Silverlink
Line, the North London Railway. Imagine the scenario in the morning
peak where hordes of passengers are making their way through the
gates trying to exit the station and the wheelchair user or the
mother with her double-buggy is trying to get through those gates
at the same time. I put it to you, it would not be an easy journey
to make, certainly in the peak period.
874. Mr Berryman has put forward a number of
slides. Can I ask you, please, to take those to hand? I want to
ask you to comment on some of them briefly, please. If we can
turn to 002, we can see there the buses from Maryland.[54]
Are there any comments you want to make on that slide or the Manor
Park bus routing slide?
(Mr West) It is quite small to see, my Lord.
You probably have the same problem as me. The only point I would
like to make is that some of the information provided on this
map is a little bit out-of-date.
875. In what sense, Mr West?
(Mr West) I think it does not show night buses.
876. Do you know what numbers those are? If
you do not—
(Mr West) In respect of Manor Park, the map does not refer
to the 474 bus route, which is 24-hour.
877. Does that change the position in respect
of the number of changes that have to be made to access Forest
Gate from Manor Park?
(Mr West) The number of changes from Forest Gate to Manor
Park still means you have to take one bus to change.
878. MR REED: Unless there are any comments
you have on the local bus routing maps, I want you to go on to
007.
879. CHAIRMAN: Before you do that, Mr
Reed, I think that we are not particularly helped by bus route
maps in the form that they have been presented to us. I have got
here the overall plan, which is the third page, I think, of this
evidence, which shows Crossrail proposals in Newham and, of course,
it shows Maryland, Manor Park, Stratford and Forest Gate.[55]
I have plotted on to it as best I can the University of East London
campus. What I think we are talking about is a large population
who live in the East Ham and West Ham areas, which I know very
well, and what we have not got is any correlation between the
streets that run through those areas and the bus routes. We have
got diagrammatic bus routes but I am not sure we have any picture
of the totality of the bus access, for instance, to Stratford
and Forest Gate.
49 Committee Ref: A2, Manor Park-Westbound Platform
(NEWMLB-53_05-016) Back
50
Committee Ref: A2, Maryland Station Entrance (NEWMLB-53_05-019) Back
51
Committee Ref: A2, To Maryland-Walk Route from Stratford (NEWMLB-53_05-020) Back
52
Committee Ref: A2, To Maryland-Walk Route from Stratford (NEWMLB-53_05-021) Back
53
Committee Ref: A2, Maryland Station-Northbound Bus Stop (NEWMLB-53_05-022) Back
54
Committee Ref: A2, Buses from Maryland (NEWMLB-53_04-002) Back
55
Crossrail Ref: P8, Forest Gate Station-AM Peak Access Catchment
Plot-2001 LATS Data (NEWMLB-53_04-013) Back
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