Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1660
- 1679)
1660. Yes and the 6,000 free bicycles which
were provided at key destinations?
(Mr Berryman) No, we have not had a specific discussion with
them about that but we will be doing so in due course. I think
that the two projects, the bicycle rental project and Crossrail,
are to a large extent independent one of the other. It may well
be that they choose to have hire stations near our train stations
and that will be a very sensible thing to do but they are not
necessarily interlinked in quite the positive way that you are
implying by your question.
1661. Can I refer to my evidence at page 7?[17]
Again, since they do say that they will be focusing at key destinations,
such as railway stations and major attractions, could you envisage
in the future dialogues with TfL engaging with them to design
Crossrail stations to accommodate such docking stations?
(Mr Berryman) Yes, I would be astonished if
we did not engage with them to do that.
1662. On any of the over-site developments with
Westminster City Council, is Westminster City Council responsible
for the planning issues regarding those over-site developments?
(Mr Berryman) They are.
1663. Will they be carried out by third parties
in all circumstances in terms of the private developer looking
at the over-site?
(Mr Berryman) We have what we call collaboration
agreements with a number of private developers who are effectively
our partners in those developments.
1664. In terms of the lorry movements, could
you try and estimate or set a target for the amount of spoil which
will be removed by water and rail or through the tunnel itself?
(Mr Berryman) The total volume of material
that needs to be moved is very substantial—it is about eight
million cubic metres. We are aiming to move more than half of
that, so you could say four and a half to five million cubic metres
by means other than the highway. We may be able to increase that—we
have some interesting ideas we are working on as to how we might
increase that, but I would not like to go further than that at
this stage.
1665. Will that mostly be carried out through
the tunnel? By which modes of transport will that spoil be removed?
(Mr Berryman) It will be moved from the
point where it is excavated to a rail head or a barge head by
conveyor and then it will be taken away by train or by barge.
1666. Do you have a published plan for achieving
that?
(Mr Berryman) Yes, we do.
1667. MR PECK: That is all, thank you.
1668. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: Mr Berryman,
on the Southern rail network that I use frequently, and which
passes through Gatwick, we have carriages that are intended to
provide an arrangement to put a folding bicycle. This leads to
a lot of confusion between those with luggage and those with a
folding bicycle because the manner in which the racks are laid
out is an open invitation to put the folded bicycle flat on the
top deck, which therefore means that it excludes any possibility
of putting cases on it. Are you going to have any better arrangement
in these carriages that does not result in that conflict?
(Mr Berryman) I think the design of the rolling stock, my
Lord, is something which is a little way off yet. At the moment
our specification for rolling stock is set in very broad terms
about things like the number of seats and the number of doors
and the power system, and so on. I do not think the designers
have got down to that kind of detail just yet.
1669. I am a great believer in designing contention
out of things, so I hope that you do it.
(Mr Berryman) So am I.
1670. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: Lord
James has anticipated the point I wanted to debate, but just to
pursue that because I think it is an important area in as much
as this is trying to get the right balance in terms of potential
wheelchair usage, cycle carriage, luggage, etcetera; it is going
to make for an interesting design challenge. I am interested to
ensure that you are going to take into account a reasonable assessment
of all those factors. As soon as I use the word "reasonable"
I know that that is a broad term, but what sort of percentage
of carriage space would you allow, for example? You must have
looked at other rolling stock and said, "In those areas we
would allow 20 to 30 per cent of a particular carriage."
I am interested in the criteria that you would apply in making
those assessments.
(Mr Berryman) If you want to look at current trends in rolling
stock design I think the recent stock on the Jubilee Line gives
you a very good idea of how the seats are likely to be laid out.
First of all, most of the seats are likely to be longitudinal,
that is to say not facing or back to the engine—we do not
say that any more, but you know what I mean—so that the
seats will be along the sides of the cars. And every so often,
probably at one door in each car there will be a space where there
are no seats, there are just bump seats—a little thing you
can perch on at the side—and those are the spaces where
you would expect people with buggies, people with big lumps of
luggage, people with bicycles and wheelchair users to use. Then
every so often in those there will be locks for wheelchair users
because if you are in a train in a wheelchair one of the things
you do not want to do is that every time the train stops is to
go surging forwards or backwards, so you need locks for wheelchairs.
So it is balancing all those different kinds of uses which will
be part of the challenge for the rolling stock designers.
1671. BARONESS FOOKES: Given these complexities
is there any idea of having a full-scale mock-up of such a carriage
so that the potential users can look and see whether it works
or not?
(Mr Berryman) There will be mock-ups constructed before the
real things are constructed, yes.
1672. And you will give the opportunity for
people who are not "experts" but likely users to have
the chance to look at these?
(Mr Berryman) I am not sure that we have thought that through,
my Lady.
1673. May I suggest that you do?
(Mr Berryman) We will do so.
1674. MS LIEVEN: Can I ask one question
in re-examination, my Lord, to give some comfort on carriage design?
1675. CHAIRMAN: Yes.
Re-examined by MS
LIEVEN
1676. MS LIEVEN: Mr Berryman, given Transport
for London's role in this project, will they have some say in
the design of carriages?
(Mr Berryman) They
will.
1677. Are they likely to be concerned about
ensuring that there is sufficient space for bicycles?
(Mr Berryman) Yes, they are, as I think
has been explained by both the Petitioners and ourselves. Encouragement
of cycling is an important facet of their transport policy.
1678. MS LIEVEN: Just to give the Committee
some comfort. Those are all my questions for Mr Berryman.
1679. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr Berryman.
The witness withdrew
17 Committee Ref: A6, "Mayor unveils programme
to transform cycling and walking in London" Mayor of London
press release, 11 February 2008 (LINEWD-93_05-007) Back
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