Examination of Witnesses (Questions 2840
- 2859)
2840. MR ELVIN: Yes, but the regulations
do not apply to Parliament so we have to apply the Directive.
They amount to exactly the same thing in terms of the substance
of the matter.
2841. CHAIRMAN: Very well.
2842. MR ELVIN: Can I assist further?
If the Committee wants more on this we have set out the position
rather more fully in Information Paper B8 which deals with how
the legislative aspect of Environment Impact Assessment applies
to this Hybrid Bill. Secondly, we also set out in B8 our considerations
on the European Convention on Human Rights. My Lords, I am certainly
happy to expand on that at greater length, perhaps in closing
or at some other stage, if the Committee would find that helpful.
2843. CHAIRMAN: No, I am setting the
scene at the moment. I want to make sure that the Petitioners
all know where to look in the big bundle of documents for the
various information papers for the information relevant to the
points they make.
2844. MR ELVIN: Therefore, as far as
the Environmental Impact Assessment and the Human Rights aspects
are concerned, it is Information Paper B8.
2845. CHAIRMAN: Yes, but I think it would
be a very good thing if you were to write down on a piece of paper,
because they are not all here but they are coming over the next
week or so, exactly where they find what you have done to comply
with these various requirements.
2846. MR ELVIN: I am sure the Petitioner
Response Documents refer them to the correct IPs but we will remind
them again if the Committee think that would be helpful.
2847. CHAIRMAN: I have only been reading
the Petitions and there does not seem to be any reference whatever
to any of your notes.
2848. MR ELVIN: My Lord, I have to say
I have made these submissions at least twice to these Petitioners
in the other place, and there is in the Environmental Report,
which was put before the House of Commons at Third Reading, Command
Paper Cm 7250, correspondence between the Department, myself and
the Petitioners, where I set out in writing—and it has been
reproduced in the Command Paper—the submissions which appear
in B8 and various other places. It is fair to say we have made
our position clear I hope in writing on three or four occasions
at least to these Petitioners. My Lord, I am not seeking to avoid
trying to make it clear to them again if that would help.
2849. CHAIRMAN: All I am concerned about
is that Mr Carpenter and his colleagues, some of whom are not
here today, should know where to look in order to find what is
your case on a lot of the issues they have raised. It is not in
the Register of Undertakings or Agreements, of course it is not,
but it is in other documents and I think it would be helpful if
I was assured they all knew where to look for them.
2850. LORD SNAPE: I am sorry, we are
drowning under a welter of documents, but could someone assist
me in finding where we could find document B8?
2851. CHAIRMAN: I was not precluding
ourselves.
2852. MR ELVIN: It is in the bundle of
Information Papers, my Lord.
2853. CHAIRMAN: We have a very big bundle.
2854. LORD SNAPE: Indeed, it would take
us until 5 o'clock to find it on that basis, Mr Elvin, with respect.
2855. MR MOULD: My Lord, unless you have
a different red bible from the one we have, you should find it
after Tab B, the last Information Paper before Tab C, which is
about a six-page document entitled B8 "Compliance with the
EIA Directive and the ECHR".
2856. LORD SNAPE: That might be true,
Mr Mould, with respect, but it is not in the index which ends
at B7.
2857. MR MOULD: In that case, we must
produce a new index post haste. I did not appreciate that had
happened. I do apologise for that.
2858. LORD SNAPE: It could be in here.
We are assured it is in here.
2859. MR MOULD: It is, yes. Whilst I
am on my feet, if Mr Elvin will allow me, just a factual matter.
I think this is right, as soon as we received petitions our parliamentary
agents, Messrs Winckworth Sherwood, wrote to the Petitioners drawing
their attention to the existence of the Information Papers. I
am told it was Crossrail who wrote, I do apologise. So the Petitioners
will have had a letter of that date drawing attention to the existence
of the Information Papers which of course include this document
we have referred to. They are available on the Crossrail website,
there is a specific page which deals with them, a link, and then
they are referred to in the documents, my Lord, which I think
you have not seen but we must make sure you do see them, that
is to say the Petition Response papers.
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