Examination of Witnesses (Questions 2960
- 2979)
2960. Thank you. Can you describe to the Committee,
please, the potential impact that you see of this construction
site in Hanbury Street on the health of the current residents
in Spitalfields, and particularly in regard to the lorry routes
and lorry movements.
(Dr Safir) One of the things that has
worried me so far is nobody has mentioned health. There has been
no contact from Crossrail about a local health assessment for
the local needs. In 2006 my practice had the highest number of
emergency admissions and acute bed occupancy of the whole of Tower
Hamlets with asthma, COPD, which is one form of chronic lung disease,
and we have massive amounts of heart disease. It is not uncommon
to see 35-40 year old Bengali males drop dead of heart attacks.
I am not an expert on pollution but I have done some research
and I have spoken to one or two of the chest physicians and they
have told me there are two types of major impact generally of
digging holes and pollution of locally long-acting holes in the
ground. One is obviously what is coming out of the ground, the
particles have been proven to have a detrimental health effect
on people's lungs, and our Bengali population already have pretty
bad lungs. I will not go into technical details but I was also
told that they have a low lung volume and the low lung volume
is a high indicator of premature death, and our Bengali population
have that so are particularly sensitive to pollution. The other
impact is obviously from the spoil coming from the ground and
how it is transported from the ground to wider areas and also
that has an impact on everyday pollution, not just from what is
on the lorries but also the emissions from the lorries themselves.
Evidently a constant turnover of diesel lorries would have a likely
impact. As I say, I am not an expert on particulate emissions
but I think the evidence is out there to say that if you have
got a very confined area, and I will stress we are dealing with
a very confined area, the streets are very narrow, and it is almost
impossible to drive down the streets anyway because of the roads,
my feeling is the shaft, no matter what size it is, would have
some detrimental health effect on the population as a whole. We
are also dealing not only with the chronic lung disease but we
have massive amounts of asthma. I am sure the Committee are well
aware that air pollution is a very sensitive guide to the amount
of asthma that people suffer from.
2961. Dr Safir, thank you for that. You have
said that you had no contact from Crossrail with regard to health
matters at all. Do you know anything about the Primary Care Trust
and whether they have had any contact?
(Dr Safir) I have had nothing at all.
I know the Select Committee in the Commons did suggest that I
should be contacted if there were going to be any local impact
schemes to find out the effect of the building in the community
but to date I have heard absolutely nothing from anybody.
2962. Have you got any comments that you would
like to make about the proposed routing of the tunnel which the
Committee have already discussed this afternoon?
(Dr Safir) I was asked right at the end
of my statement in the Commons what I would like and I said I
would not like a dirty great hole in the middle of Spitalfields
and I would still say that. I appreciate what my Lord has said,
that it is not their job to suggest alternative routes, but I
do feel building this shaft, no matter what the size, in the middle
of the Spitalfields area, with its unique health problems, and
I would like to stress this is not an ordinary community, this
is a very poor community, a very suffering community, and anything
that can be done to avoid the shaft in Banglatown would be high
on the agenda for helping people, would have a very detrimental
effect on the community itself.
2963. I know you have been included in invitations
to the Community Liaison Panel and I appreciate you were not able
to attend the one on 26 February, but are there any comments you
would like to make about the Community Liaison Panel?
(Dr Safir) I have been to most of the
meetings that Crossrail have set up since the meeting at the Commons
and I know there has been a lot of distrust from the whole community
about Crossrail 's intentions and there have been lots of boycotts
of meetings and lots of feelings that Crossrail are going to do
everything no matter what we say, and this has been put forward
very strongly by the community, that there is very little trust
that Crossrail would be listening to what we said. I went to the
first two meetings that Planning Aid for London set up and again
the feeling was that Planning Aid for London had an agenda. A
lot of the people at these initial meetings felt that because
they were resourced by Crossrail they did not come in with a neutral
agenda and when people were raising matters that may have been
technically not what Planning Aid could deal with about objecting
to things, there was a lot of feeling that Planning Aid were not
completely neutral and were not on out side, if you like, and
hearing what the Petitioners or the community liaison groups wanted.
I know there were several episodes where people said, "You
are not listening to what we are saying; you are not listening",
and I think this came across very strongly and there is a lot
of distrust. Perhaps there are technical and legal reasons that
Planning Aid have done things the way they felt but I do feel
that a lot of the people who wanted to join the Committee felt
we were not being listened to in the initial objections. Therefore,
although at every meeting things have taken a step forward—and
I will grant that somebody mentioned, "Let's have the Camden
Tripartite Way Ahead" and that seems to be what will happen—people
generally felt we are being bulldozed into doing what Crossrail
felt. I think that was very sad but I think it was a very genuine
feeling that the objections of the community were not being listened
to even at source and it was going to go ahead anyway no matter
what you say.
2964. I will be dealing in more detail with
the Community Liaison Panel. Dr Safir, is there anything more
you would like to tell the Committee today with regards to the
impact of Crossrail ?
(Dr Safir) I really do feel there will be a big impact on
people. Nobody has mentioned people today. I deal with people,
I have to listen to what people say, and I think unfortunately
when you have a big plan like this people's voices are not listened
to. There are several issues, you have mentioned the lorries coming
in at certain times and going out at certain times, it does not
mention what happens at lunch break when all the kids pile out
from school. I just think there is just so much more that Crossrail
need to listen to—listen to the parents, listen to the teachers,
listen to the professionals at times. One thing I did note was
that I see they have a list of 26 or 27 professionals dealing
with every aspect of tunnelling and the project, but there does
not seem to be an expert on health. I think health has been sorely
neglected in all the proceedings up to now. I certainly have not
been involved, or had any knowledge of the health authority being
involved or any experts coming in at this stage.
2965. MS COVE: Thank you. I do not know
if the Committee have any questions?
2966. CHAIRMAN: First Mr Elvin or Mr
Mould. Have you any questions?
Cross-examined by MR
MOULD
2967. MR MOULD: Good afternoon, Dr Safir.
As you said to the Committee, you did give evidence in the House
of Commons Select Committee proceedings, did you not?
(Dr Safir) Yes, Sir.
2968. And indeed you raised a number of concerns,
some of which you have reiterated today. As you know, and Mr Elvin
touched on this earlier, one of the things which the House of
Commons Committee did was to require the Promoter to establish
the monitoring body which has come to be known as the Spitalfields
Community Liaison Panel, you are aware of that recommendation,
and indeed it is right to say that you, as you say, as a local
general practitioner of very long standing within the Spitalfields
area were invited to attend the first meeting of that body in
October 2006. That is right, is it not?
(Dr Safir) Yes.
2969. I believe you did attend.
(Dr Safir) Yes, Sir.
2970. Again forgive me as I simply do not know
whether it is right or not, have you attended subsequent meetings
of that body which have taken place from time to time since that
date?
(Dr Safir) The only meeting I have not
attended, to the best of my knowledge, was the last meeting. The
reason for that was because I did not actually get the invite
in time but I have attended every other meeting that whole time.
2971. As a general practitioner of very long
standing who obviously has, as you have said, an intimate understanding
of the particular health problems which are experienced by members
of the local community particularly those from the Bangladeshi
community, are you in principle quite willing to participate in
the Spitalfields Community Liaison Panel, whatever form it may
take, in order if you like to act as the local voice for those
who need the project to address those concerns?
(Dr Safir) Definitely, that is why I volunteered
myself to be on the committee.
2972. If I may say so, one cannot imagine a
more apt person, with your experience and your role in the community,
to represent those concerns. Is that fair?
(Dr Safir) I would hope so, yes.
2973. We, for our part, can see no possible
reason why you should not fulfil that role as a member of the
Liaison Panel. We would welcome your continuing involvement in
order to inform the project through its community relations work
of those local issues relating to health which need to be taken
into account. Are you happy to do that?
(Dr Safir) I am very happy to do that.
I would have thought by now that Crossrail would have already
set up some form of monitoring scheme, some form of health impact
on the local population which would have involved me by now. I
think this was mentioned in the Commons, that there had been no
local assessment of the population, and I think the Chairman of
the Committee felt this was an oversight.
2974. There are two points there and I will
deal with the second of them—which is whether there has
been any assessment of the health impacts from the project in
Spitalfields—in a moment, but the first point is whether
there is a mechanism in place to enable local health concerns
at that time to be fed into the detailed planning of the project.
That is plainly a role which the Liaison Panel can and ought to
be performing, is it not?
(Dr Safir) I think that is absolutely
certain, yes. There needs to be external sources brought in as
well to do the monitoring, not just going on the hearsay of one
general practitioner.
2975. However that may be, I think we have agreed
that you are particularly well placed, not just anecdotally but
based on your professional experience and knowledge of health
problems in the local area, to play a prominent role in performing
that function and you can do so through your attendance at and
contribution to the Liaison Panel?
(Dr Safir) I agree.
2976. The second point you raise is whether
there has been any assessment by the project of the central health
impacts of the Crossrail proposals, particularly as regards the
proposals for a construction work site at Hanbury Street. It is
in fact factually correct to say that Crossrail has carried out
a health impact assessment. That is right, is it not?
(Dr Safir) A generalised health impact
assessment but not a specific one for the very ailing population
in Banglatown. I want to make it clear to the Committee that I
do not regard Spitalfields as a normal community healthwise, they
have very specific poor health and the impact on a community like
Spitalfields would be much more devastating than in a far more
affluent area.
2977. Dr Safir, I am certainly not putting the
case to you that those who live in the Spitalfields are typical
of the wider community and the health problems and challenges
they present, which you, if I may say, have very eloquently explained
to the Committee this afternoon. So please do not misunderstand
me speaking on behalf of the project, that is certainly not our
view, just so there is no doubt about that. I have asked to be
put up on to the screen the front page of a health impact assessment
we did carry out in January 2006. You have read this document,
have you not?
(Dr Safir) Yes, I have.
2978. And it is fair to say, is it not, that
within the document there is a particular focus on the likely
significant health impacts of the construction project upon the
Whitechapel and Hanbury Street area?
(Dr Safir) Yes, I think there is evidence.
In your document, it says that there is a potential for problems,
and that is my interpretation, but my point to you is, can the
scheme go ahead with a tunnel of whatever width and length and
whatever, if it has such a detrimental effect on the health of
my local population? That I think needs to be looked at very,
very carefully on a local issue rather than in a generalised way.
2979. I should say straight away that we do
not accept that the project will have a vastly detrimental effect
on the health of the people in Spitalfields, that is not to say
that we do not deny for a minute the importance of taking careful
account of the potential health impacts of construction works
upon local people particularly those who might be disadvantaged
in terms of their health, and we have been through that point
and we have been through particularly the role you can play and
are willing to play in order to ensure that matter is not lost
sight of and the role the Panel can play in that respect. But
in order to make a sensible judgment on that matter, that is to
say the real risk of construction works of Crossrail in the Hanbury
Street area affecting the health of the local people, one needs
to focus on the actual proposed works and their scale and extent
which are intended to take place within that area, does one not,
and one needs to avoid exaggerating the extent and scale of the
works and thereby exaggerating the extent and scale of the potential
health problems which might result from them?
(Dr Safir) I think that is fair enough
but what has happened over the course of the years is that Crossrail
has put forward various documents suggesting different sized shafts,
different lengths of times that the digging is going to take,
different numbers of lorries coming through, and I am not sure
that we are fully aware—I am certainly not—of your
latest proposals that you outlined just before, saying there will
be only 16 lorries a day for nine months. We have heard in the
past there will be much larger numbers of lorries going through.
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