Examination of Witnesses (Questions 3000
- 3019)
3000. And you said you had not. My understanding
is that they were consulted when the Environmental Impact Assessment
that I showed you earlier was being aired but, clearly, they would
be an appropriate consultee within the embrace of the Liaison
Panel and generally as regards the whole impacts of the scheme
upon local people. My understanding is that that is provided for
under the terms of our emerging Community Relations Strategy Framework.
Again, that being the case, that must give you some reassurance.
(Dr Safir) All I know is that at the Commons
Select Committee, Crossrail were informed that I should be kept
addressed of any health issues that were being raised, and since
I went to the Commons Select Committee I have heard nothing directly
from health authorities, from Environmental Health or from Crossrail
about anything that has gone on since then.
3001. I cannot speak for other bodies but, so
far as Crossrail is concerned, of course, as we have agreed, you
have been involved since its inception as a member of the Health
Community Liaison Panel.
(Dr Safir) But I do not know of any work
that has been done in preparation for the digging of the shaft.
That, in my opinion, should be done now rather than when the shaft
is activated. There needs to be a lot of work done in preparation
and advices given
3002. MR MOULD: I do not think I can
take that any further. We have been through some of the practical
measures that we have in mind to deal with potential problems
and the matters which you have raised which principally focus
on dust and air quality. I will leave it there.
3003. CHAIRMAN: Ms Cove, do you have
any questions.
Re-examined by MS
COVE
3004. MS COVE: Dr Safir, can I confirm
with you that the original meeting of the Crossrail Community
Liaison Panel which took place at Whitechapel Art Gallery in 2006,
in fact you did not attend because you were not invited to that.
You went to the one in October.
(Dr Safir)
I am sorry; I thought that was the meeting you were talking about.
No, I was not invited to the original one.
3005. I put forward the name of Dr Safir to
Crossrail representatives there, that he should be invited. Do
you think a site-specific Health Impact Assessment should be a
separate issue to your participation in the Community Liaison
Panel where you can advise us on general matters of health, but
that a site-specific Health Impact Assessment should include all
local professionals and be a separate entity to the CLP?
(Dr Safir) I agree. As a member of the
CLP I can give information and ask for help or whatever, but my
feeling is what you say: that there should be a load of expertise
coming into Spitalfields to individually assess the impact of
the shaft in Hanbury Street.
3006. MS COVE: I have two final comments.
I will deal with the Health Impact Assessment in more general
terms in my evidence to you. The final question I would like to
ask you, Dr Safir, is this: Mr Mould raised the issue of paying
Planning Aid for London with regards to them facilitating the
establishment of the Community Liaison Panel. Do you think that
has had any effect on what you have described as believing Planning
Aid for London having a hidden agenda?
3007. CHAIRMAN: Ms Cove, I think the
only people who can answer that are Planning Aid themselves.
3008. MS COVE: Fine. Thank you.
Examined by THE
COMMITTEE
3009. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: Before
I ask my question, I would like to express my admiration to Dr
Safir for having survived 35 years in that area—and it still
looks like he has his own head of hair.
3010. Dr Safir, it is a tribute to your stamina
and commitment. I mean that genuinely, even though I have raised
it in a light-hearted way. We of course are concerned about the
impact on the people. I was listening to your comments. We intend
to probe Crossrail stringently, as we ought to do in these circumstances.
I could not help thinking that there is other building work going
on in that area and whatever building work goes on does not help.
We do not control the number of lorries that emit particulates,
some of which do not cover their loads as well as they should
do. We can all drive around and see lorries giving out black exhaust
emissions that should not be on the road. We have to restrict
it to a minimum. We cannot pretend that there are not other external
factors going on. You were very specific. You said that the shaft,
whatever size it was, would have a very detrimental impact. Can
you really validate that? You can express concern that it might
have, but you said it definitely would.
(Dr Safir) As I say, I am not an expert
on particulates but I have spoken to one or two people who have
more knowledge than me. Obviously the least lorries coming in
and the cleaner the spoil the better, but there seems to be some
evidence from previous digs and sites that the long-term impact
on the health of the population does exist. I am trying to point
out that we have already a very polluted area—as you rightly
say, with all the construction sites and the diesels and everything—but,
also, we have a highly sensitive population. We have far more
asthmatics and far more people with serious lung disease in the
Spitalfields area and it does not take much to impact on their
health. We know this because there are certain times of the year
when my admissions go up, when the numbers of asthmatics multiplies.
It does not take a lot of impact detrimentally on the environment
to make a poor population go downhill very rapidly. That was my
feeling. Obviously the least lorries going in and the cleaner
the spoil, I accept that and I am sure Crossrail will do everything—because
that is what they have told me at previous meetings. Obviously
I was exaggerating when I said the cleanest hole in the history
of the universe, but they have told me that they will try to make
the impact as minimal as possible and I want to put out that with
an adverse population a minimum of impact might have a devastating
effect on individuals. I think that is what needs to be looked
at before they start coming in. We need to get the expertise,
people who have the expertise in particulates around the table.
That was the point of that last question to me there: rather than
me saying, "Come on," as part of the Liaison Panel,
let us look at it, before the hole is dug somebody somewhere needs
to get some experts in to look at the impact and realise that
maybe an impact in my particular population would be more devastating
that in other areas. That was my feeling.
3011. CHAIRMAN: Lord Brooke first.
3012. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: Could
I continue on the same theme, my Lord Chairman, on the practical
measures that could be taken, which is what I believe you are
calling for, save, of course, abandoning the project altogether.
I am interested in the nature of the relationship between your
practice and the PCT and the extent to which the PCT has or has
not been involved with what is happening. Do you have direct representation
to the PCT?
(Dr Safir) In what way do you mean?
3013. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: I live
in Battersea and my practice has a representative who works very
closely with the PCT.
(Dr Safir) Obviously we do have close working relationships
with the PCT, yes.
3014. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: Have
you raised the issue with the PCT about the possibility of—
(Dr Safir) Not at this stage. I think the situation is such
that I was waiting for Crossrail to come to me and say, "This
is the state of play in 2008, these are the number of lorries,
this is how long the shaft is going to take". What I hoped
would happen was through the PCT or independent experts, and maybe
that is what is needed—the PCT is just a governing body
that looks after general practice, they are not particularly the
people who would have any expertise in their own right—what
I would have hoped was Crossrail , either via the Liaison Committee
or via myself or via their own experts would get somebody in to
do a local objective consultation.
3015. To a good deal I am sharing sympathy with
you on your objective. The PCT has a lot of money and, yes, there
are great demands in the area where you are but they have a lot
of money and a lot of access to a lot of qualified people. I am
wondering if whether maybe a pincer movement on your part may
be worth considering, not just waiting for Crossrail but raising
the issue direct with the PCT seeing if you can get support and
partnership with them and then into discussion fairly quickly
with Crossrail and whether you would be prepared to consider that.
(Dr Safir) Of course I would be prepared
to do that, yes.
3016. BARONESS FOOKES: Dr Safir, I do
admire your continuing care and concern for your patients and
people in the area. I am somewhat curious to know why the various
health authorities, if I may follow Lord Brooke, have not taken
up these issues on their own initiative. You have taken the initiative,
and all credit to you, but it does not seem to have been shared
by other health authorities. Is that right?
(Dr Safir)
I think they are too busy doing other things at the moment to
be particularly concerned with an individual issue. They tend
to generally monitor general practice and primary health care.
I do not think they see it as their role at this stage to get
involved in issues like this.
3017. One wonders at what stage then because
we are getting fairly far down the road. However, that is not
your responsibility.
(Dr Safir) No, but I agree with you 100
per cent.
3018. Could I then ask you, are you concerned
mainly about the digging of the shaft, let us leave aside the
lorries for the moment, or are you concerned about its operation
which, after all, is permanent?
(Dr Safir) Again, I am not an expert and
obviously I would need to know what is coming out of the shaft
once it has been dug and how much pollution is coming out from
the tunnel. I would hope Crossrail would have the ability to monitor
that. Yes, anything that causes pollution in the area will have
a detrimental effect. The Brick Lane area is a filthy area, it
is already polluted. As you have heard, there are lorries going
around and traffic congestion. The roads are permanently blocked,
you cannot drive down the roads at the best of times. Most of
them are one-way streets and you try to drive 20 yards and they
are blocked by traffic and the pollution levels go up and up and
up. It is a very poor area to drive in at the best of times.
3019. I am sure Crossrail will be willing to
give us this kind of information, and certainly I am sure we will
be asking for it, just to prepare them. One final point: is there
any problem with cigarette smoking in the area which would add
to their health problems?
(Dr Safir) We have an enormous amount
of cigarette smoking, yes. We have people drop dead very early
because of a multitude of things, including cigarette smoking.
We run a non-smoking clinic and my nurse is actually swamped with
takers. It is a big, big issue amongst the Bengali population,
especially the young men.
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