Examination of Witnesses (Questions 3460
- 3479)
3460. CHAIRMAN: This is exactly what
I am trying to get out of you.
3461. MR MOULD: That is why I keep saying,
with respect, that the neatest and simplest way under our arrangements
for that to happen is for proprietors of the kind you have mentioned
to require of us that we give them what I called the Settlement
Deed, which is a contract between ourselves and that proprietor
in relation to their property which requires us contractually
to undertake defect surveys, inspections, to commit to paying
the cost of remedial works that are required as a result of the
construction of the tunnels, provide the dispute resolution arrangements
that Lord Brooke asked me about a few moments ago, all those things.
If there is a message that Mr Wheeler should take back loud and
clear to those that he represents it is, those of us who own properties
in Spitalfields which lie over or adjacent to the running tunnel
of the railway, we must all write letters and say, "We want,
please, a Settlement Deed in relation to our property so that
we can secure under the terms of our contract with the Promoter
these various protective measures and benefits which we have been
told are available to us". Frankly, that is by far the most
straightforward way in which compliance can be secured.
3462. CHAIRMAN: Mr Wheeler, does that
make sense to you? If it does not now do you think if you discussed
it a bit further with the Crossrail legal team it might do?
3463. MR WHEELER: Yes, that is a good
point. The issue of the Settlement Deeds will be dealt with by
later petitioners, later presentations, tomorrow and Thursday.
It is not an issue that I am familiar with or presenting for discussion
today. It is a very legal issue and I am really dealing with the
physical, architectural, engineering issues.
3464. CHAIRMAN: We have done a bit of
initial exploration of this. If you and your colleagues want to
follow it up you are, as far as we are concerned, welcome to do
so.
3465. MR WHEELER: We will be. Thank you.
3466. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: I
am presuming, and maybe I am wrong, that you have a duty of care
that you are going to communicate with every one of these properties
and say to them, "These are the assurances. It is in your
interests to enter into a Deed of Settlement with us". It
should not be a situation where you inadvertently miss anyone
out, because you will have a project management process. Am I
right in assuming that you are going to do this so that they will
get from you a communication which says, "These are your
rights. These are the assurances and undertakings, etc. It is
in your interests to enter into a Deed of Settlement", and
you will describe the process? Then of course they have got to
get back to you, I accept that.
3467. MR MOULD: Every one of the petition
response documents which we have written in the last month or
so to Mr Wheeler's body of petitioners, to Mr Adams' body of petitioners,
to Miss Jones, to others who have raised settlement in petitions
has a paragraph in it which specifically identifies their entitlement
to call for the Settlement Deed and refers to the Information
Paper D12 that I have referred to. That is not the first time
that has been drawn to their attention. I think I am right in
saying that exactly the same point was made in petition response
documents that many of the same petitioners will have received
in 2006 in response to their petitions in another place. I know
this is not a complete answer, but it is something that is included
on the website as well.
3468. It is a feature of our arrangements that
has certainly been well-ventilated in the public domain in the
parliamentary process, and I am very happy to go on the record
today and reiterate the points I have made. There is simply no
doubt about that. As I understand it the key concern is that people
should be able directly to enforce these arrangements; and the
Settlement Deed is the mechanism which is available to them for
that purpose.
3469. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: If
I may just explore further. What is the timetable within which
they need to enter into this Deed of Settlement with you?
3470. MR MOULD: Any time in advance of
nine months before the works take place underneath their property.
They have got between now and at the latest 2011.
3471. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: If
before that time you notice there are one, two or half a dozen
people who have not communicated, will you follow up with a further
reminder to them?
3472. MR MOULD: I do not have specific
instructions to say that but I would be very surprised if we were
not to say that is what we would do.
(Mr Berryman) The situation really cuts across the land acquisition
point here, as well. We have to acquire subsoil rights from quite
a lot of people, and of course we have to reference them and find
out who is living in which property, so we will have a register
of the people directly over the tunnel. There will be a zone of
people either side of that corridor whom we will not necessarily
have picked up by the formal process of referencing.
3473. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: Within
the 30 metres?
(Mr Berryman) Within the 30 metres, yes. However, we will
obviously write to all the people as far as we can identify them.
We have found through bitter experience we think we have written
to everybody and then somebody pops up and says, "You haven't
written to me". This is a particular area where that happens,
because the street layout is rather discombobulated. As has been
mentioned this morning, there are properties at the back of other
properties which are occupied as separate residencies. We will
do our best to do that. We will have a consultation group in the
area. We will have a one-stop shop. We have already given that
undertaking to the other House. Anyone who feels that they have
been missed out will be able to visit that one-stop shop and be
dealt with there. We will also have a complaints commissioner
so, in the event that person does not get satisfaction in the
first instance, there is a complaints procedure and it will be
very well publicised. Certainly the intention will be to let everybody
who is affected know but, as I say, very occasionally you miss
somebody out. Unfortunately that is a fact of life, I am afraid.
3474. LORD BROOKE OF ALVERTHORPE: On
the Register, the Deed, which you offered on 18 February 2008
where you set out all the procedures in Information Paper D12,
which I gather is going to be subject to further petitioning later
this week, that I presume would go into the Register?
3475. MR MOULD: I am not sure that it
would. I will take instructions on that, because it is felt that
the Information Papers sit alongside the Register. I will take
instructions on that and make sure. It may be sensible if it is
not in the Register if we take steps to include it.
3476. Before we leave this, and I appreciate
we have spent a bit of time on this, but it is obviously something
of importance. First of all, what I am going to do is I am going
to ask that we invite Planning Aid, who I think are still facilitating
the Liaison Panel or, failing that, invite the Liaison Panel themselves
to put this topic on the next agenda for the next Liaison Panel
meeting and I am going to suggest that, if possible, we provide
information to the next Liaison Panel meeting, explaining these
procedures. I hope that would be a helpful thing to do.
3477. CHAIRMAN: It certainly would. Has
it not been on the agenda before?
3478. MR MOULD: I honestly do not know
the answer to that question, it may have been.
3479. CHAIRMAN: We are all very concerned
about this Liaison Panel and why it does not seem to have worked
better than it has. We would like any further enlightenment about
that.
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