Examination of Witnesses (Questions 4680
- 4699)
4680. MR HORTON: I can only show you
what the Chairman appears, from the transcript, to have considered
to be the extent of the Commons' Committee's powers.
4681. CHAIRMAN: Of course this is all
clouded by these criticisms of Mr Berryman, is it not? I do not
say that that is necessarily the case, but it is unfortunately
an undercurrent, is it not?
4682. MR HORTON: It is too much of an
important judgment to be affected by that, my Lord.
4683. CHAIRMAN: Well now, what are you
asking us to do?
4684. MR HORTON: I am asking you to hear,
and it will only be brief, from Mr Schabas.
4685. CHAIRMAN: Why?
4686. MR HORTON: So that he can explain
to you whether, when looked at, and I am sorry to repeat the phrase,
objectively, Route B is a route which warranted classifying as
a main alternative rather than being dismissed out of hand, which
is what happened, in order to assist you in advising the House
as to whether or not, in the context of the environmental assessment
argument, it is necessary for further consideration to be given
to it.
4687. CHAIRMAN: How long is it he going
to take?
4688. MR HORTON: Half an hour.
4689. CHAIRMAN: Is he going to attack
Mr Berryman?
4690. MR HORTON: No.
4691. CHAIRMAN: I will keep you to the
half-hour.
4692. MR HORTON: Thank you, my Lord.
I am most obliged.
4693. CHAIRMAN: I will give you the benefit
of the doubt and say that it is 12 o'clock.
MR MICHAEL
SCHABAS, sworn Examined
by MR HORTON
4694. MR HORTON: I can introduce you,
Mr Schabas, and it will save time ----
4695. CHAIRMAN: I think we are fairly
familiar with his background and qualifications.
4696. MR HORTON: I thought you would
be. Can I just refer you to Day 24 where it is all set out in
the transcript when he gave evidence for the Mayfair Residents'
Association.
4697. CHAIRMAN: I think that is the bit
that we have read avidly which is where he was shut up because
he attacked Mr Berryman.
4698. MR HORTON: So I will not take more
time introducing him, if that is acceptable. Mr Schabas, in relation
to the alignment proposed through the Spitalfields area, since
when have you given it any consideration?
(Mr Schabas) I think the Spitalfields Association first approached
me about two years ago and showed me the plans as they emerged,
as they basically teased them out of Cross London Rail Links,
so obviously the latest one is fairly recent to study it, the
B alternative.
4699. How experienced are you in making judgments
in relation to railway schemes at the stage when a route is being
selected about whether alternatives should be considered?
(Mr Schabas) I guess that depends on how hard you are trying.
In the Channel Tunnel Rail Link, my job was to make sure that
we teased out anything that might be thought of as a main alternative,
so at every point along the route it was easy to draw one route
from A to B at each segment along the route, but often we said,
"Well, what if we went around the other side of the village?
What if we went in a tunnel here? What if we went around the trees
and the woods?" Usually, we went to public consultation with
two or three alternatives for each section of the route and often
we would go to public consultation and say, "We can go down
this street or we can go around the back here, this way, and these
are the impacts of it", and we would have a table and we
would list—
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