Examination of Witnesses (Questions 4920
4920. Perhaps I should not ask you to speculate
on the likelihood of success in terms of convincing the Fire Service
that they do not need this shaft.
(Mr Berryman) No, that is quite correct.
I cannot answer that question, I am afraid.
4921. But you are trying?
(Mr Berryman) We have put some further
documents to them in the last couple of months. This is an iterative
process but I would be misleading you if I said that we were nearly
4922. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: But
it is clearly worth doing.
It is worth putting the effort in, certainly.
4923. MR ELVIN: So far as the Rail Regulator
is concerned, that lies within the hands of the independent Regulator,
does it not?
It does indeed. Rail safety is now part of the Regulator's function.
4924. CHAIRMAN: If there was a shaft
would it be about the sort of size that we saw at Rotherhithe?
Similar, my Lord.
4925. And it would be likely to make a similar
(Mr Berryman) Yes, my Lord. In fact, it
would be likely generally to make no noise at all because most
of the time it would be switched off.
4926. There is also the one in the corner of
New Palace Yard that people can go and look at if they want to.
(Mr Berryman) That is right, my Lord.
4927. And listen to.
(Mr Berryman) Yes, when it is switched
4928. MR ELVIN: Unless the Committee
has any further questions or any of the Petitioners who are present
wish to ask any questions, that concludes my questions in chief
of Mr Berryman on these issues.
4929. CHAIRMAN: Are there any Petitioners
here who want to ask any questions?
Cross-examined by MS
4930. MS JORDAN: I am terribly sorry.
Jil Cove was dealing with the lorry routes but could I ask a couple
of questions? Could I just have up the lorry route map that you
Obviously, it is the lorry route round Spitalfields that I want
to talk about, and probably, if I have a steady enough hand, my
office is about there (indicating), so you are quite right, Mr
Berryman: this entry in here (indicating) is exceedingly small.
It is in fact a one-way street and it just about takes a lorry
width. One of its major problems is this junction here (indicating)
because you are coming from the east and then turning across the
people that are going east. This is a terrible junction, and certainly
in the last two years we have had three major accidents with pedestrians
there. Could I ask what provisions you are going to make for the
lorries turning across this road here (indicating) because the
problem is this major junction that comes in here (indicating)
onto it. It is a junction with a side road and it is already very
problematic as far as pedestrians are concerned. One of our concerns
is that these lorries turning in there will be exceedingly problematic.
Have you made any arrangements for these lorries to cross in this
red route and the main traffic route and will there be any provisions
(Mr Berryman) We have not got to that level
of detail yet. This is something we will have to resolve with
the local authority, but in fact this is the route that the local
authority think is the most manageable of the potential ones to
get into this area.
4931. So at what stage will that be done? In
order to get into this area with these lorries that is a key entry
point. It will cause traffic jams. This is one of our main problems,
that we are concerned about the traffic down that very narrow
road and its effects on the Whitechapel Road. The other one that
I wanted to ask about was in fact this junction here (indicating).
You said that it is impossible to get lorries going north and
round into Buxton Street, but have you got proof that you can
get lorries in the other direction?
(Mr Berryman) We have.
4932. So you will not mind us coming with one
of my colleagues on another day and showing you that we have proof
that you cannot get your soil lorries round that corner?
(Mr Berryman) We will have to ban parking
on this side of the street here (indicating).
4933. It is not the parking; it is the narrowness
of the junction onto this road here (indicating) which, of course,
is where all the schoolchildren come when they are coming down
here and off here (indicating) to these two schools here (indicating).
Our evidence is that you cannot get one of these very large soil
lorries round that corner.
(Mr Berryman) We have done a swept path
analysis of the kinds of vehicles that we would be using for this
work and we have satisfied ourselves and the local authority that
we can do that.
4934. I hope the Committee will not mind if
we came back on that with one of our other colleagues because
we have evidence that you cannot. We feel that you cannot.
4935. LORD BROOKE OF ALVETHORPE: Going
back to our visit, Mr Berryman, I think I suggested that perhaps
there might be some merit in considering whether or not there
should be some additional crash barriers around the streets round
there where they were very narrow. Could I suggest that maybe
this is a topic that would be worthy of pursuit with the Community
It would be worth very worthwhile, my Lord, yes. As I said in
relation to my Lord Chairman's comments, that is exactly what
we proposed the Panel should be used for.
4936. LORD BROOKE OF ALVETHORPE: I wonder
if the witness would like to take up the opportunity.
4937. MS JORDAN: I am terribly sorry.
Because I am deaf I find it really difficult sometimes.
4938. LORD BROOKE OF ALVETHORPE: I am
suggesting that these are topics that maybe the Community Liaison
Panel ought to be in discussions with.
4939. MS JORDAN: I think it is a topic
that really needs to be determined now rather than a lorry arriving
at that corner and discovering it cannot get round.
23 Crossrail Ref: P23, Proposed lorry routes to Whitechapel
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