Examination of Witnesses (Questions 5120
5120. MS JORDAN: I simply wanted to find
out because we have never seen an alignment of Whitechapel Station
on that and I wanted to take the opportunity to ask Mr Berryman
whether he had it because that is the only way I have ever found
out any information about route alignments or what they have done
and what they have considered and not done. In fact, route alignment
B, I got that information on 25 January 2007 and I had to present
my petition on 30 January 2007, and I think that is not adequate
time for public information. It may be something that we will
be able to take up other than your restrictions on the route alignment.
5121. CHAIRMAN: Have you got any further
questions for Mr Berryman?
5122. MS JORDAN: No. That is it, thank
you very much.
Examined by THE
5123. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: I
have a question which arises out of something that Ms Jordan said.
Have you got an agreement with every school that is in that area?
We covered one school and Ms Jordan seemed to indicate that there
was a school that had not reached an agreement.
5124. MR ELVIN: No. It was in relation
to a school governor. What I am told is that the school governors
have been told they are more than welcome to come along. One school
governor has attended on one occasion, but only one. If the school
governors wish to come along and wish to speak to us they are
more than welcome to do so. The School Liaison Group is a liaison
group of all the local schools. No-one is omitted. If anyone wants
to participate that is what the Liaison Group is for.
5125. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: Every
school is represented on the School Liaison Committee?
5126. MR ELVIN: Yes. I have got a few
supplementary questions for Mr Berryman. Just as a point of information
because of some of the matters that have been raised this afternoon,
it is not correct to say that other representatives of the community
have been precluded from coming. The Spitalfields Housing Association
petitioned the Commons and Mr Oudin, on behalf of the Housing
Association, gave evidence to the Committee and received an assurance
from us that we would continue to liaise with them, and indeed
it is the Chairman of the Spitalfields Housing Association who
has been chairing such panel meetings as there have been recently.
I can give you the references. It is the Commons Special Committee
report, volume 3, and it runs from pages 1050 to 1055. Mr Oudin
gave evidence on behalf of the local housing association and the
local people involved in that to the Commons. The housing association
has not petitioned your Lordships' House, so it is not right to
say that some of the other associations have somehow been disbarred
or prevented from coming. They got an assurance from us. It is
in the register of undertakings. Just for the record, if you want
to see Dr Pedretti's petition, she did petition the Commons. She
is in the same volume, the transcript of her petition being heard
is at pages 930 through to page 934.
5127. MS JORDAN: Sir, for the record
5128. CHAIRMAN: Oh, please, no.
5129. MS JORDAN: Could I just say that
I am in fact a member of that housing association committee. Mr
Alan Oudin is no longer their Chair. The Chair is called Mr Askandar
Ali. He is also the Vice Chair of the SSBA. We work very closely
with the housing association. They were unable to get their petition
together and therefore it did not get in in time, but they felt
with our SSBA one, we are a sister organisation, they were quite
happy to run with that, but I can assure you that we all know
each other in the local community. We are all concerned about
this. We own joint properties with Spitalfields Housing Association
and our concerns are also their concerns, and I think it is wrong
to present this as if you are trying to divide and rule us. We
are the people that will be suffering when these lorries go round
5130. MR ELVIN: There is no question
of us seeking to divide and rule. The point I am making to the
Committee, as the committee well knows, is that we, like the Committee,
are not seeking to preclude anyone being heard. I am simply making
the point that the account that was being given of an attempt
to exclude less advantaged members of the communities is simply
wrong. What Ms Jordan has just said, in fact, is that they are
represented through her own association if they are closely associated.
I am simply responding to that point. If I may, I just have a
few supplementary questions for Mr Berryman.
Re-examined by MR
5131. Can I just ask you, Mr Berryman, about
the right turns from the Whitechapel Road into Greatorex Street?
(Mr Berryman) Indeed.
5132. At peak, which is for the nine months
of construction, it is assessed that there will be 16 lorries
using that route a day.
(Mr Berryman) That is correct.
5133. The working day is 8.00 am till 6.00 pm?
(Mr Berryman) That is correct.
5134. Which is ten hours, so that is 16 lorries
spread over ten hours.
(Mr Berryman) That is right.
5135. Are you able to assist the Committee with
whether they are all likely to come in one bunch or how they are
likely to be spread out?
(Mr Berryman) I am afraid they could not
all come in one bunch because what will happen is that most of
those lorries will be taking away excavated material from the
sinking of the shaft, and when one is empty the next one will
have to come so they will be spread out over that working day.
They will be called forward either from the logistics area outside
or from the lorry holding area as they are needed. We know it
takes about eight or nine minutes to get from the holding area
to the site, so they would be called up in that way, and they
would be spread through the day in a fairly uniform pattern. I
could not say exactly how many an hour, but it is one or two most
hours, I would have thought.
5136. In terms of traffic management planning,
does Crossrail have anyone who is working specifically on traffic
management planning at the moment and liaising with Tower Hamlets?
(Mr Berryman) We have a team of people
working on traffic management consisting of three people at the
moment. It will probably be increased over time. They specifically
liaise with all the local authorities but, as I think I mentioned
earlier, Tower Hamlets is the one where we have more sites than
any other authority so more of their effort is devoted there.
5137. Does Tower Hamlets have someone who is
dedicated to the question of the traffic management planning liaising
(Mr Berryman) I am not sure if they have
a full time traffic officer but they certainly have a number of
officials who we deal with on a regular basis who call on the
assistance of a traffic group.
5138. Finally, with the schools, it was suggested
that the schools had never raised the issue of routing. Can we
just look at one of the minutes please, which is in the exhibits
bundle? It is exhibit XR5F, that is tab F, page 127.
It is a meeting of the Schools' Panel on 24 April of last year,
and on that occasion there were representatives of at least two
schools, two representatives of the London Borough of Tower Hamlets,
representatives of Crossrail and other people were being copied
in. Can we go please to the second page, page 128? We see at 4.0
and 4.1 that the route was walked for the purposes of the Liaison
(Mr Berryman) That is correct.
5139. " ... explaining what the schools
may expect during construction regarding lorry movements based
upon work undertaken ... ", so the Schools Panel at that
meeting were actually walked around the lorry route?
(Mr Berryman) Yes, that is correct.
Promoter's closing statement on the settlement
issues in the Spitalfields area
25 Crossrail Ref: P23, Crossrail Spitalfields Community
Liaison Panel (CSCLP) Schools Meeting Minutes, 24 April 2007 (TOWHLB-XR5F-127
and -129) Back