Examination of Witnesses (Questions 5400
5400. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: There
is nothing that is not likely to come back again when they are
5401. MS SINGLETON: No.
5402. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: So we
can cross that off our worry list?
5403. MS SINGLETON: Yes. There are a
number of trees in Durward Street which have struggled to survive
and have just got a hold on life and I do not know whether any
of them would be affected at all.
5404. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: Thank
5405. CHAIRMAN: I would like to have
a very short break. Ms Lieven, I think we are getting to the situation
for the second time where the arrangements with Tower Hamlets
about what is going to be done about these junctions is raising
its head. I wonder if you would like, while we have a five minute
break, to take instructions and see how far you can go because
we will not have an another opportunity after this Committee is
finished and it does not seem to me that you have made very little
progress with Tower Hamlets about some of these very obvious details.
Could you put your heads together while we have a short break
and see what you can do to help us.
5406. MS LIEVEN: Certainly.
After a short break
5407. CHAIRMAN: Welcome back. Mrs Singleton,
that was all you wanted to ask Mr Walters, was it?
5408. MS SINGLETON: Actually I do have
another question. This thought continues as well about Cambridge
Heath Road. If at peak times there are 240 lorries coming into
the Sainsbury's site, 60 of them are then going out into Durward
Street but that means 180 lorries are going to come into Sainsbury's
and exit Sainsbury's. I am wondering what the load factor will
be on Cambridge Heath Road and Whitechapel Road, the A11 which,
to begin with, will be a fairly tight turn. It seems to me that
added to the fact that there are all the lorries coming down Vallance
Road it is a tremendous amount of movement per day.
(Mr Walters) It is a lot at the peak,
your sums are right. If you divide it by the 10 hour day, it is
between 12 and 14 an hour movements into that.
5409. CHAIRMAN: Whose peak is it? Is
it your peak or peak rush hour?
(Mr Walters) It is our peak. When I talk
about a peak, it is a peak period of maybe 20 or 30 weeks when
our production of excavated material from the tunnels is at its
peak, so it is our peak number of lorry movements during the course
of a four or five year construction programme, my Lord.
5410. This does not correspond with rush hours?
(Mr Walters) We will not have lorries
going into and out of the site while the schools are operating
and we will try, from the point of view of getting lorries to
and from the site, and avoid the rush hour as much as we can,
but inevitably if you need a constant flow of lorries there will
be some in the rush hour.
5411. MS SINGLETON: I understand one
of the reasons the lorries will be coming in and out of the worksite
is to take excavated spoil away. Would this mean there would have
to be a build up of spoil during those peak times?
(Mr Walters) To an extent the sites are
quite small so the amount of area available for storing excavated
material temporarily is quite small, but we will need to clear
excavated material away in the mornings and make sure the sites
are clear in the evenings as well.
5412. Would it be difficult to do this without
the continual flow, whether it is the peak hour or not?
(Mr Walters) It is a question of programming
and trying to get lorries on to site at a continual rate, but
with the half-hour closure for the schools corresponding to part
of the rush hour, it is something we have to manage and learn
by practice to start with, whether we need to get a certain number
of lorries down at the start of work and exactly how it is going
to phase in with our rate of production of material. It is difficult
to be absolutely precise at the moment.
5413. BARONESS FOOKES: Did I not understand
from earlier evidence that it was planned to have really major
holding sites just beyond the M25, if I recall correctly, and
that there would be constant radio or telephone contact so that
you were able to judge the flow that was needed of lorries and
excavated materials pretty finely?
(Mr Walters) Yes, you did, my Lady, Mr
Berryman talked about that last week. The use of logistic sites
will be particularly important when we are dealing with the fit-out
stages of the projects when you need lorries that have got a range
of materials on them. For the excavated material going away by
lorry, very often it will be the lorry holding areas which will
be used to a great extent. There would be no reason for them to
go into a logistics area to change loads, for instance, it depends
very much where the material is being taken to. We would not want
to force them through the logistic sites if it meant a much longer
journey to where they were going.
5414. I gather some are going to be carried
down to water by barge, some of the excavated material, is that
(Mr Walters) There is a range. The main
tunnelling works where the excavated material is produced at Limmo
and out at Paddington will go away by barge and by rail respectively.
From the central area station sites, that is Whitechapel and the
other stations going west through to Bond Street. The ticket halls
and the shafts have to go away by road, but the tunnels connecting
between the stations go away through the already excavated tunnels
out to Limmo and to Paddington.
5415. CHAIRMAN: Does that give rise to
any more points?
5416. MS SINGLETON: No.
5417. CHAIRMAN: Is there anything you
want to clear up?
5418. MS LIEVEN: My Lord, can I attempt
to deal with your Lordship's concerns from before the short break
and if we leave Mr Walters in the witness box for a moment, then
he may need to contribute. So far as the concern about Vallance
Road is concerned, my Lord, can I make three points: first of
all, when Tower Hamlets attended before this Committee a couple
of weeks ago, if I could read you what they said about this type
of issue, what Mr Drabble said was, paragraph 2036: "Our
first priority at Whitechapel has been to secure the maximum protection
for residents' businesses, school children, the hospital and other
users in the area from what will inevitably be major construction
impacts. In this respect I am pleased to say that we have secured
a range of undertakings which are designed to protect the area
from heavy lorry traffic and construction activities, particularly
in the vicinity of Kempton Court and Durward Street. We have also
worked very closely with Swanlea School and as you will see from
the Register of Undertakings the school has secured a number of
important undertakings to protect its continuing progress as a
successful school". I would not want this Committee to think
that Tower Hamlets were not engaged in this issue.
5419. CHAIRMAN: No, but presumably we
can find these on the Register.
19 Para 2036 [Mr Drabble QC] Back