Examination of Witnesses (Questions 6600
- 6619)
6600. CHAIRMAN: You see, at the present
moment I am at a loss to know what sort of undertaking it is that
you are supposed to be giving.
6601. MR MOULD: My Lord, that is for
Mr Hicks, with respect. Mr Hicks raised the question of what would
be embraced within their compensation as and when they are acquired
for the Crossrail works, and he said that they would not get their
current use value. Of course, their current use value will be
embraced within the market value that they will be paid on acquisition
of their premises. That is a fundamental part of the Compensation
Code. Equally, any loss of development value which they may suffer
as a result of compulsory acquisition of their premises will also
be embraced within the compensation payable to them. Finally,
to say that there is something special about their case in that
they have been denied the opportunity to realise the redevelopment
of their premises—they asked us to acquire the whole of
their premises. That is what 1 and 2 are about. With respect,
they cannot have their cake and eat it. Either they want us to
acquire the whole of their premises because they say that they
are materially detrimentally affected, or not. As I understand
it, 1 and 2 are not in issue in this case.
6602. CHAIRMAN: Mr Hicks, I am still
at a complete loss. You want us to, as it were, support an undertaking
or to direct that an undertaking be made.
6603. MR HICKS: My Lord, yes.
6604. CHAIRMAN: I do not know in what
terms.
6605. MR HICKS: If one looks at paragraph
44 of the special report of the lower House, if they were to offer
an undertaking to purchase our building at any time after June
2009 that would do the job; that would provide the teeth. That
is when they say they want it. At the moment there is nothing
to stop them not doing it at all. It is that uncertainty that
provides the crucial combination.
6606. CHAIRMAN: Well, Mr Mould, do we
need to reinforce the commitment which you have set out in this
paper by making very strong recommendations that you purchase
it in June 2009?
6607. MR MOULD: In my submission, no,
there is no need to go beyond what we have said. We have indicated
that on the current programme we would take possession in June
2009. That means what it says. Unless the programme shifts substantially
that is what will happen, but it would be wrong to commit us to
that actually happening, in other words, to introduce a "use
it or lose it" clause binding on us in relation to June 2009
because we cannot say, viewing the matter from March 2008, that
the programme might not slip by a month or three months. In order
to cover that situation we have given the commitment in paragraphs
4 and 5 that we will enter into negotiations for acquisition of
the premises as soon as Royal Assent and funding are in place.
That is expected to be a substantial period of time prior to June
2009. As I have said, assuming that both parties, as one assumes
they will, pursue those negotiations vigorously and expeditiously,
there must be a reasonable prospect that whatever date Crossrail
takes possession of the premises, be it June 2009 or August 2009
or whatever date, by that time the parties will have reached agreement
and matters can take their course at that stage. That is what
these commitments allow for and that ought to be enough for this
Petitioner, with respect. If they want this to be set out in a
deed of undertaking rather than simply assurances given through
correspondence which you have in front of you, then I have no
doubt that we would be very willing to enshrine these commitments
in that way.
6608. CHAIRMAN: I see.
6609. BARONESS FOOKES: Mr Mould, I take
it there is no doubt but that the scheme will go ahead at this
point? It is a question of timing, not whether it goes ahead or
not?
6610. MR MOULD: There is no doubt at
this point. Put another way, the current intention of the Promoters
is to proceed with the scheme.
6611. BARONESS FOOKES: The scheme in
general?
6612. MR MOULD: Yes.
6613. BARONESS FOOKES: But also at this
particular point there is no likelihood of any particular change
taking place in the engineering programme?
6614. MR MOULD: At this point there is
no such likelihood, no.
6615. BARONESS FOOKES: So it is more
a question of the timing rather than whether it goes ahead or
not?
6616. MR MOULD: Yes. We had this yesterday,
do you recall? Ms Lieven spoke about unforeseen circumstances
in relation to the Canary Wharf Group petition. One can never
say never, and by the same token I cannot go beyond what is reasonable
in terms of anticipating what may happen, but I hope I give your
Ladyship a sufficient measure of comfort as to what, viewed from
the vantage point of March 2008, is intended.
6617. BARONESS FOOKES: It may be some
comfort to me, not necessarily to the Petitioner.
6618. MR MOULD: That is in the nature
of blight. We are back again to blight.
6619. BARONESS FOOKES: So really blight
means in these circumstances that some sacrifices may have to
be made by the Petitioner and others like it for the greater good?
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