Examination of Witnesses (Questions 7420
7420. CHAIRMAN: So they could not say
it ought to go another way.
7421. MR CAMERON: If the way was set
by the resolution they could not say that, yes, my Lord. That
is one of the objectives we seek to achieve to make it easier
for the Secretary of State if she comes forward with this proposal.
We are trying to assist her, but she does not seem to wish that
assistance. My Lords, I do not think there is anything else I
7422. CHAIRMAN: We are very grateful
to you. Thank you so much, Mr Cameron. I do not think the fact
that it has taken us a little longer than might have been expected
has done any harm whatever; you have clarified a great deal of
7423. MR CAMERON: Thank you, my Lord.
7424. CHAIRMAN: I believe there is one
of the Petitioners who wants to read out a statement.
The Petition of Mr Roy Carrier
7425. MS LIEVEN: Yes.
7426. CHAIRMAN: I am sure we can fit
that in this afternoon.
The following Petition against the Bill was read:
The Petition of Mr Roy Carrier.
The Petitioner appeared in person.
7427. MS LIEVEN: Mr Carrier is towards
the back of the room. I will let Mr Cameron move his papers. My
Lord, while Mr Carrier is organising his papers shall I make a
very brief factual opening?
7428. CHAIRMAN: So long as he can concentrate
on both at once.
The Petition of Mr Roy Carrier
7429. MS LIEVEN: Is that all right, Mr
Carrier? Thank you.
7430. CHAIRMAN: Do remember, Ms Lieven,
we did not know this was going to happen today, so explain it
7431. MS LIEVEN: I did not realise that,
my Lord. I will explain it. Mr Carrier is a resident in the area
of Belvedere, which your Lordships have just been hearing about.
So it is the next station to the east from Abbey Wood. So we are,
at least, still concerned with the area of south-east London,
so there is a little bit of geographical consistency herewhich
is better than we normally manage!
7432. Mr Carrier's concern is the traffic of
a number of schemes in the area and the cumulative impact of those,
including the Crossrail proposal at Abbey Wood. So his concern
is one about traffic. In particular, as I understand it, his main
concern is the impact of the Thames Gateway Bridge on the highway
7433. CHAIRMAN: Have we got any plans
that show all this?
7434. MS LIEVEN: I am about to show it,
my Lord. If we can put up 003, what we have hereI am sorry
we have had to merge different plans so it is not quite as straightforward
as it might bethe purple is Crossrail, and the end of the
purple is Abbey Wood Station.64
Belvedere is off to the east. What we have marked on here in dark
red is the Thames Gateway Bridge, which is a proposal for a new
Thames crossing being promoted by Transport for London. The position
on the Thames Gateway Bridge is that the application was considered
at an inquiry last year by an inspector and Mr Carrier appeared
at that inquiry and was one of a number of objectors. The Secretary
of State has decided, in the light of what happened at the inquiry
and the Inspector's report, not to make a decision on the bridge
at this stage but to ask for further information on the traffic
implications of the bridge, and she is intending to reconvene
the inquiry at a later date when she has that further information.
7435. So there are a lot of issues, if I can
put it like that, about traffic and the Thames Gateway Bridge,
which have nothing to do with Crossrail but are by no means straightforward.
There can be no doubt that the Thames Gateway Bridge is going
to have traffic implications on south-east London; the scale of
those implications is a subject of fierce debate, but that there
will be impact is not.
7436. On the other hand, the traffic impacts
of Crossrail at Abbey Wood are relatively slight. There will be
impacts but they are relatively slight. In essence, my Lords,
the majority of people using Abbey Woodso not the interchangers
who you have heard a lot about today but the majority of people
going to and leaving Abbey Wood itselfwill either come
on foot, or by bus, but there will be some people driving. Some
of those will drive and park and some of those will do what is
known in the trade as "kiss and ride"i.e. be
dropped off. I am never sure whether it is the kisser or the rider
who will go off somewhere else. However, the level of traffic
impact is, as I said, relatively limited, partly because there
is relatively limited car parking at Abbey Wood, both in terms
of on-street parking, where there is a CPZ (which I can show you
in a minute if I need to) and limited surface level parking. So
there is an inevitable constraint on the numbers of people who
7437. The highway authority in the area is,
of course, the London Borough of Bexley, from whom you have just
heard, and Bexley have been concerned about traffic impacts. I
do not want to suggest that there is no concern about it, but
we have reached agreement with Bexley, and it is recorded in our
undertaking number 153, which I have just put up, that further
work will be done on the subject.65
If I can just take you through that undertaking: "The Promoter
agrees to continue discussions with the London Borough of Bexley,
in consultation with the London Borough of Greenwich" (the
Committee will remember that Greenwich is just a little to the
west) "with a view to agreeing the highway improvements that
may be necessary to mitigate the impact of the Crossrail scheme
associated with passengers arriving and departing from Abbey Wood
Station. The Promoter will fund reasonable transport measures
that are agreed by the London Borough of Greenwich, the London
Borough of Bexley and the Promoter to be reasonably necessary
in order to mitigate the impact of the Crossrail project as a
result of passengers arriving at and departing from Abbey Wood
7438. So there we have the highway authority
and, indeed, the next highway authority downthat is Greenwichbeing
content with the situation of further discussions and improvements
to be made if they are accepted to be reasonably necessary as
a consequence of Crossrail. In my submission, that is sufficient
for this Committee's purposes. You have got the highway authority
happy that further work is the way to sort this problem out, if
there is a problem, then in my submission that should be the end
7439. CHAIRMAN: How does this undertaking
fit in with the new Gateway Bridge?
63 64 Committee Ref: A38, Crossrail and Thames Gateway
Bridge-Proposed Alignments (BEXYLB-4_04-003) Back
65 Crossrail Ref: P48, Crossrail Register of Undertakings and
Assurances No. 153 (SCN-20080401-005) Back