Examination of Witnesses (Questions 7600
- 7619)
7600. MS LIEVEN: That is right, my Lord,
and I am very happy. We will provide a note that sets out the
relevant dates and what has been considered and what has not.
In that we will cover Ebbsfleet and the CTRL internationals and
any information we have on the inter-relationship between them
and Abbey Wood.
7601. CHAIRMAN: I do not know whether
that is going to satisfy Lord James, but until he has seen it
I do not suppose we can tell.
7602. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: I will
do my best, my Lord, to be satisfied.
7603. MS LIEVEN: My Lord, there is one
other matter that I ought to touch on with Mr Anderson, because
it is relevant to your Lordships' questions. Mr Anderson, the
Environmental Statement and all the traffic modelling for Abbey
Wood was drawn up on the basis that there would be no station
at Woolwich. Is that right?
(Mr Anderson)
That is correct, yes, originally.
7604. The position on Woolwich is a little complicated,
but the position now is that assuming that an agreement is reached
with Berkeley Homes (and the Committee will be aware that there
are heads of terms of an agreement with Berkley Homes but it is
not yet finalised) and assuming that the station is fitted out
under agreements with Greenwich and other contributors—so
if there is a station at Woolwich—then does that have an
impact on the traffic forecast at Abbey Wood?
(Mr Anderson) It has a very material impact
on the forecast at Abbey Wood. There would be a significant reduction
compared to the figures set out in the Environmental Statement—something
of the order of a quarter of the passengers accessing the station
would probably use the Woolwich station.
7605. So there would be a significant reduction
in traffic at Abbey Wood if there is a station at Woolwich. Is
that right?
(Mr Anderson) There would be a material
reduction, yes. I should say there would still be an impact that
we would have to address through the undertaking.
7606. MS LIEVEN: I just think it is important
that the Committee sees that as part of the context.
7607. CHAIRMAN: Is the Woolwich station
in Schedule 1? I think it is not.
7608. MS LIEVEN: It is the subject of
an additional provision, my Lord. Mr Walker will check. No, it
is in the Bill, my Lord.
7609. CHAIRMAN: It is in the Bill already,
is it?
7610. MS LIEVEN: It is in the Bill already.
7611. CHAIRMAN: I am just trying to find
it, that is all.
7612. MS LIEVEN: Quite what powers it
is being built under may not be straightforward, but it is not
on quite the same footing as the other stations in the Bill because
we have assessed it on the basis that it will only go forward
if these agreements are entered into. So it is not one of the
stations that the Secretary of State is funding and building under
the powers in the Bill. I think, at that point, I can hand over
to Mr Carrier.
7613. CHAIRMAN: However, if it is in
the Bill then provisionally you will have to add it into the traffic
considerations, will you not?
7614. MS LIEVEN: Yes, my Lord. It has
been fully assessed in the Environmental Statement that went in
AP4, but the critical point to emphasise at this stage, in the
face of this Petition, is that if it is built the impact on Abbey
Wood goes down because lots of people in south-east London go
to Woolwich and not to Abbey Wood. So it makes the situation at
Abbey Wood better, and that is part of the background to Greenwich's
report, the Mouchel report that Mr Carrier was so concerned about.
7615. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: Ms Lieven,
Woolwich is not going to be a stop for the Eurostar, so it is
irrelevant to the point of the traffic consequence of transfer
from Ashford.
7616. MS LIEVEN: Yes, my Lord, I quite
accept that.
7617. LORD JAMES OF BLACKHEATH: Just
to be clear on that point. It does not alter the original question.
7618. MS LIEVEN: I am sorry, my Lords,
I did not put it as an answer to my Lord, Lord James's questions;
it has got nothing to do with the CTRL internationals; it is to
do with the fact that a significant proportion of the people who
are assessed to use Abbey Wood or to drive to Abbey Wood will
now use Woolwich if it is built.
7619. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: It
will have a material effect on the Transport Impact Assessment
around Abbey Wood.
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