Examination of Witnesses (Questions 8030
- 8039)
Ordered that Counsel and Parties be called in.
8030. CHAIRMAN: Mr Elvin, I think you
are going to tell us something about the railway clauses.
Promoter's opening address on Crossrail
services and operations, the Access Option, general railway industry
issues and Bill powers
8031. MR ELVIN: Actually, my Lords, I was
proposing to deal with the details of the rail powers next week
and I will deal with one specific issue in a moment about the
railway clauses.
8032. CHAIRMAN: Well, you deal with anything
that you think can help us.
8033. MR ELVIN: As your Lordships know,
your Lordships have listed for the hearing over the next two weeks
Petitions from a number of interested parties who have a direct
interest in the operation, and management, of existing railways
which Crossrail has the potential to affect. You will be aware
that last week, on 14 April, the Office of the Rail Regulator
approved an access option for Crossrail, having publicised the
proposed decision on 3 March. In the light of this, the Minister
set out his proposals in his statement dated 18 April that it
is the Government's intention to cut back the powers sought in
the Bill in line with the policy statement which was made, and
circulated, on 11 April, which I think your Lordships have seen,
in order to allow Petitioners an appropriate amount of time to
prepare for their appearances before this Committee. In general,
those dealing with the railway powers issues are programmed to
be dealt with next week, so I look to Mr George QC, who is for
EWS, at some point to confirm to us what issues remain with EWS
next week because the Rail Freight Group under Lord Berkeley's
guidance have already written to us yesterday and indicated the
limited nature of the materials about which they are now concerned
and the limited nature of the issues which they will be raising
before your Lordships' Committee next week.
8034. CHAIRMAN: If you can clarify that,
it would be helpful.
8035. MR ELVIN: Yes, it would be helpful
and then we will know a little more accurately about the timetable
next week. I am not proposing, therefore, to deal in any detail
with the railway powers issue, other than to tell the Committee
this: that, in response to various requests, we will be able to
circulate either later today or first thing tomorrow, having received
them from parliamentary counsel, the proposed amendments to the
railway clauses, and the Petitioners—and I have told Mr
George this already this morning—should receive the draft
amendments either today or tomorrow, which should give them sufficient
time to consider them before appearing next week; they are very
short.
8036. CHAIRMAN: Are we going to be asked
to make the amendments or is that being left to recommittal?
8037. MR ELVIN: That is being left to
the Public Bill Committee stage. They are principally Public Bill
amendments relating to public powers and, although they have implications
for private interests, they have such implications in the same
way that all public powers have implications for private individuals,
so the amendments will be tabled at the Public Bill Committee
stage rather than before your Lordships. However, we are making
them available so that the Petitioners can see what they say and
so that the Committee can see what they say, so, if anyone wishes
to raise a point, of course they can raise it before your Lordships,
but we would not propose formally to deal with them until the
Public Bill stage.
8038. CHAIRMAN: Mr Elvin, I see what
it is that is going to be left out, but I wondered if I could
just ask you, not now, but at some stage, to have a look at clause
41(3), the provision for arbitration. I have never seen anything
so Stalinist in my life! The Secretary of State, being a party
to it, can direct what the outcome of the arbitration is to be.
That is an unusual proceeding.
8039. MR ELVIN: It is and it is a provision
which has had the support of both Houses to date. Indeed, if I
could give your Lordship a reference, it was specifically raised
by the Minister at Third Reading in the Commons on 27 November.
It is Hansard for 27 November, column 93, where the Minister said
that it was very much a fall-back power. Of course it loses a
considerable amount of its teeth with the removal of the railway
powers directing the Rail Regulator to give particular priority
to Crossrail. I can deal with this in more detail next week.
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