Examination of Witnesses (Questions 11280
- 11299)
11280. If we proceed to PRACT, I am not going
to repeat the factual issues that I touched on in opening a little
while ago, but the principal concern of PRACT, over and above
the substantive issues, is consultation and discussion with them
about the proposals. The position is that we have set up at Paddington
a Paddington Liaison Group which is already up and running, and
meeting and discussing. So we have involved local residents and
other local stakeholders including, for example, the hospital,
who I did not mention in opening but who are obviously just on
the other side of the canal from the site, and local businesses.
They have all come together in this liaison group, which I understand
to be working well.
11281. CHAIRMAN: It includes the City
Council?
11282. MS LIEVEN: It includes the City
Council, absolutely. I should just make clear, though, so that
expectations are not raised that cannot be met, that so far as
consultation on the final proposals are concerned, the final appearance
of the scheme above ground will proceed through the Bill processes
(they will then be the Act processes) under Schedule 7, and under
Schedule 7 the consultative body is the City Council. The City
Council can then itself involve anybody it wants. We know from
past practice that it will undoubtedly involve PRACT, who are
a very active local residents group and have been very concerned
on issues around the station, not just Crossrail, but the mechanism
is that it is a tier of consultation. So Schedule 7 involves the
City Council and the City Council then consults other bodies.
11283. If I just say in opening that we are
very clear that that process under the Bill should be the process
across the route, including at Paddington. If we start carrying
out direct consultation under Schedule 7 with residents groups
then one can see that that would have to be replicated the whole
way along the route, and it would lead to really quite significant
delay and problems. We are certain that the best way to do this
is through the mechanism of the local authority, as we are doing
elsewhere up and down the route. PRACT gets information and discussion
through the liaison group, but so far as the approval process
is concerned the consultation is with the local planning authority
and, through them, with local residents. I think that is the one
point I needed to explain in opening.
11284. The other issue that PRACT raise that
I did not touch on in the general Paddington opening is groundborne
noise; but the position on groundborne noise is that which was
explained to your Lordships earlier in Information Paper D10,
and there is nothing unusual or different about this section of
the route. The Crossrail tunnels in this location are planned
to lie approximately 24 metres below ground, measured from the
tunnel crown to the surface, that is when they go out of the station
and go east towards Hyde Park; we are about 24 metres below ground.
There is no reason why the groundborne noise should raise any
issue here.
11285. CHAIRMAN: You will have to come
back to this with Mr Payne, will you not?
11286. MS LIEVEN: We will come back to
it with Mr Payne who raises it specifically. My Lords, that is
all I was intending to say in opening, unless there is anything
else I can help the Committee with now.
11287. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: Groundborne
noise that is when it is operating, but I was thinking about construction.
11288. MS LIEVEN: I do not understand
PRACT to have any particular concerns. This is not an area with
particularly sensitive users, such as Soho; and it is not an area
where the tunnels are particularly close to the surface, such
as close to the River Lea where we are coming out at Pudding Mill
Lane, which is where I think in the House of Commons there was
a particular issue about groundborne noise. Here I think the concern
is simply operational groundborne noise.
11289. LORD YOUNG OF NORWOOD GREEN: Are
you using those rails, the name of which escapes me?
11290. MS LIEVEN: Floating slab track.
The predictions we have here would not justify the use of floating
slab track, no.
11291. CHAIRMAN: Mr Walton?
11292. MR WALTON: My Lord Chairman, my
Lady and my Lords, good morning. My name is John Walton. I live
at number 70 Gloucester Terrace, W2 3HH, which is in Bayswater,
two blocks away from Paddington Station. I am the Secretary of
Paddington Residents' Active Concern on Transport, usually known
by its acronym P-R-A-C-T, or PRACT for short, and they have appointed
me as their Agent.
11293. PRACT is a consortium founded in 1986
of four large Paddington residents' groups, all recognised by
Westminster City Council for their areas. Their names are: the
Bayswater Residents' Association; the Hyde Park Estate Association;
the Paddington Waterways and Maida Vale Society; and the South
East Bayswater Residents' Association. The two major Marylebone
groups and the Friends of Hyde Park and Kensington Gardens are
associates of PRACT.
11294. Our objectives cover the benefits to
residents and local businesses of major transport projects, including
in the past: the Heathrow Express railway, its extension to Terminal
5 at Heathrow Airport; and the local impact of Transport for London's
congestion charge.
11295. I am not a lawyer so I hope the Committee
will bear with me if I go wrong in matters of procedure. Nor am
I an engineer. My career before retirement was in economic statistics.
11296. PRACT supports the principle of Crossrail
but seeks protection from the adverse effects of construction
and operation. PRACT submitted petitions in the other Place seeking
such mitigation, and appeared twice in support of those petitions.
11297. I intend to call only one witness, Mr
John Zamit, who is already at the table. He is the Chairman of
one of the four major amenity societies which form PRACT, and
the one whose area is closest to Crossrail: for instance, it includes
Brewers Court which is adjacent to the proposed delivery site
for Paddington Station businesses.
11298. Our exhibits, I believe, have been given
the prefix WESTCC-6—05, and "05" is the operative
part. I will, for convenience, shorten this and refer to "05"
plus the relevant suffix. They consist of four maps taken from
the Environmental Statement, which are 05-001 to 004, and a synoptic
table, 05-005-009, which attempts to summarise the issues as they
now stand.
11299. I am so glad that those of you who were
on the site visit were able to see during your visit many of the
locations which we will be mentioning. The maps may help you to
recollect their location.
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