Examination of Witnesses (Questions 11380
- 11399)
11380. I am just seeing how you can make the
thing work more effectively, and I am sure you will go on refining
this, will you not?
(Mr Zamit) I think if you spoke to other
people we have dealt with, and the City Council and others, that
we are good people to work with, and we end up with a better result
and a better design.
11381. MS LIEVEN: My Lord, I am conscious
that we have had some quite helpful correspondence with the City
Council about this issue. What I suggest is I will get that correspondence
copied over the lunch adjournment and ask Mr Berryman about it
after lunch. Obviously it is not really for us today to get into
precisely how this liaison panel works, but they are issues that
we have been concerned about, our community relations officers
are involved in, and Mr Graham King, from the City Council, is
the chair of this liaison group, so we are all working quite well
together, I would suggest, on this particular location. I will
get that correspondence copied and we can look at it briefly after
lunch.
11382. CHAIRMAN: I think that would be
helpful. The more efficient this is the better. Mr Zamit, in your
petition you raised the question of the Heathrow Express. Nothing
has been said about that this morning—is there any point
left that you want to make on this?
(Mr Zamit)
There is nothing to raise on the Heathrow Express.
11383. MS LIEVEN: It is one of the aspects
we agreed this morning with the City Council, as to how we would
handle the undertakings that we given under the Heathrow Express
Act.
11384. CHAIRMAN: For reasons of course
I understand, we do not know what you have agreed and we never
will! It is in the petition, I just wanted to make sure it was
not being missed out. Do you want to ask any follow-up questions?
11385. MR WALTON: No, my Lord. I am most
grateful for the interest which your Lordships have been taking
in the matter, but I do not wish to re-examine.
11386. CHAIRMAN: In that case, I think
it is a very good time to adjourn. Shall we do so until half past
two. Will that give you enough time to do the photocopying?
11387. MS LIEVEN: Absolutely, my Lord.
The witness withdrew
The Committee adjourned from 1.03pm until
2.30pm
11388. CHAIRMAN: As a result of listening
to the rail freight Petitions, we thought that it was worth putting
to the Promoter the possibility of an undertaking in the following
terms:
11389. We recognise the importance of rail freight
to the economy and require the Promoter to give an undertaking
that any subsequent decisions taken by the Promoter on the proposed
infrastructure will not impact negatively on the ability of the
rail network to sustain, and expand, the carriage of rail freight
to the forecast levels for 2015, accepted by the Office of Rail
Regulation.
11390. There is no need to answer now on the
part of the Promoter. You may just conceivably have seen it before,
but, if you could give us at some time an answer to that, whether
you will be able to do that, it might go a little way towards
resolving the dispute.
11391. MS LIEVEN: We will take instructions,
my Lord.
11392. CHAIRMAN: Indeed so.
11393. CHAIRMAN: Now, Mr Berryman?
11394. MS LIEVEN: My Lord, I alluded
before lunch to a letter that I was going to put before the Committee
just to show where we were on consultation, and I think it is
just being copied at the moment, so, I will go straight to Mr
Berryman instead.
MR KEITH
BERRYMAN, recalled Examined
by MS LIEVEN
11395. MS LIEVEN: Mr Berryman, I think
the only thing we need really to cover is our approach to consultation
with groups such as PRACT. First of all, can you just explain
what consultation will take place with PRACT in relation to surface-level
works under the Bill?
(Mr Berryman)
Yes, the first thing to say is that we have a very effective liaison
group working already in the Paddington area. It is chaired by
Westminster City Council and appears to be meeting the needs of
all the people who attend it at the moment, although I think,
as PRACT have said this morning, that there is perhaps a need
for some more detailed discussion on some aspects with a smaller
number of people, and that is something we will come back to when
we have got the copied letter. The basic means by which this residents'
group and any other residents' group will be consulted is during
the planning process under Schedule 7 of the Bill when they will
be consulted by the local authority prior to the local authority
granting consent. What we will be doing in this case, and in all
the other cases, is getting from each local authority a list of
those persons to whom we should circulate the planning applications
at the same time as we send them in to the local authority, and
we would confidently expect in the case of this area that PRACT
would be one of those groups, so they will get the documents from
us at the same time as the local authority gets those documents.
Prior to that—
11396. CHAIRMAN: So it is really a matter
for Mr Walton to provide you with it or Westminster City Council?
(Mr Berryman)
To provide us with a list of who should get the documents?
11397. Of who should be circulated.
(Mr Berryman) Yes, it is for Westminster
City Council to provide that list. In this case, knowing, as I
do, the relationship between Westminster City Council, PRACT and
myself, I would have no doubt that PRACT will be one of those
groups to whom we would be required to circulate the applications.
Prior to that, we will expect the consultation to take place at
the liaison group or at an offshoot of the liaison group, if you
like, so that we can pick up the residents' concerns and suggestions.
11398. MS LIEVEN: Can you then explain
what the differences are between the process for surface-level
works and for sub-surface works?
(Mr Berryman)
I think the point to make about the sub-surface works is that
the design of the sub-surface works is very, very heavily constrained
by the standards which we adopt which are to some extent LUL standards,
but, because of the scale of these works, we have some standards
of our own, which are agreed with all the relevant safety authorities,
and the passenger circulation which we have to achieve, and the
need for the trains to be properly accessed by the passengers.
It sounds a silly thing to say, but you clearly have to be able
to get on and off the trains. The constraints, the freedom of
action in the underground works is very, very seriously limited
and we would expect that it is probably less likely that a group,
such as PRACT, or a residents' group would be able to make much
of a contribution to that design.
11399. While we are on the consultation issue,
can we just look at this document which we have just had handed
round. The second part of this page is an email from Gareth Epps
who is one of our community relations managers to Graham King
who is the lead officer at Westminster on Crossrail issues and
who, I think, chairs the liaison group. Is that right?
(Mr Berryman) That is correct, yes.
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