Examination of Witnesses (Questions 360
- 363)
TUESDAY 4 DECEMBER 2007
Professor Christine Whitehead, Ms Helen Williams,
Mr Mike Hardy and Mr Adam Sampson
Q360 Lord Moonie:
What is the proportion of migrants in general, and of recent East
European migrants in particular, in the homeless population in
the UK? What are the main factors causing homelessness?
Mr Sampson: It depends on which definition of
homelessness you are looking for. Because migrants, particularly
A8 and A2 nationals, do not have immediate rights into social
housing, those that are formally classified as homeless tend to
be relatively few, and I think, from memory, there were about
352 accepted as homeless in the last year—A8 nationals;
A2 nationals are not yet entitled to be so. So the number of people
who are formally accepted as homeless is likely to increase over
time as those new economic European migrants gain rights. Amongst
the rough sleepers, which is where I think most people tend to
conceptualise homelessness, there is considerable data from London
surveys particularly to indicate that there is a significant rise
in the number of sleepers who are from migrant communities. So
a survey done by Homeless Link found that at three-quarters of
the homelessness services in London, 15% of all their clients
were A8 nationals; and in some cases, say in Hammersmith and Fulham,
you have about 50% of the recognised street drinkers, for example,
who are from European migrant communities. There is a particular
issue here because many of those individuals will not actually
be entitled to housing benefit and the vast majority of the shelters
that are on offer to them can only be paid for by housing benefit.
So because of their benefit status they are actually unable to
access much of the help that is available.
Q361 Lord Kingsdown:
Can I ask one question to clarify my mind? You talk about communities
being homeless. If somebody comes into this country as an immigrant,
is it possible that he will end up immediately by being homeless
if he does not know where to go? Or is it that he joins a community
and for some reason or another gets alienated and gets pushed
out and ends up on the street?
Mr Sampson: There are essentially three routes
in. First of all, many—particularly economic migrants from
the European States—will arrive in this country in the hope
of employment and may not immediately find employment and therefore
end up pretty rapidly on the streets. Secondly, some may find
employment but, as we have suggested, the accommodation is tied
and if they lose that employment or that employment is seasonal
or if they fall foul of the gangmaster for whatever reason—and
in Shelter we see a lot of people who protested about their housing
conditions and the response has been to kick them out—then
they will end up homeless. The third thing is relationship breakdown,
and by that I mean both domestic relationships—and of course
not all the people that are coming to this country are single,
some are in families—but people may come across here to
say with friends and relatives—and those relationships may
break down and they therefore end up on the streets. So three
different routes, I would suggest.
Ms Williams: Certainly the research that Homeless
Link did, looking at who was accessing frontline homelessness
services amongst new migrant communities, found that they were
more likely to be people who were roofless and not in work and
simply destitute and not able to access housing and less likely
to have the entrenched problems and need drug and alcohol advice
and support. So in some cases it was quite a short term issue
and they had not been on the streets that length of time that
maybe other people had.
Professor Whitehead: I think that is an important
aspect which we need to stress because we are talking anyway,
even among homeless and roofless about very small proportions
of the total. But also, as we know from general statistics, a
large number of people suffer rooflessness for one or two or three
days—short periods of time. A small number of people are
in a much worse position and that is normally drug and alcohol
related or attributes of their lifestyle types of things. I think
these people are somewhere in between that to some extent; they
are more likely to have problems in the shorter term. But what
we do know is that they are putting significant pressure on long
established community assistance groups like the Polish groups
that have always been there to help and who are finding it almost
impossible to help just because, although it is a small proportion,
it is a large number.
Q362 Lord Macdonald of Tradeston:
Related to that question, I was wondering if the able bodied rough
sleepers that come in as migrants were causing particular difficulties
for the traditional rough sleepers, who often have problems with
drugs or drink or mental health, and how that is being resolved
if there is a dilemma there?
Mr Sampson: I think it is more the other way
around, which is that there is a danger that those who come in
able bodied, willing to work, become, by association with the
groups who are less able to manage, captured by a less coping,
more alcohol and drugs-orientated sub-culture. So I have a strong
suspicion that that may be the other way around. There is little
evidence of too much conflict between the two groups, partly I
suspect because the one group does not actually compete effectively
for the available hostel spaces because very often they are not
able to qualify for those hostel spaces. So I do not think that
those groups compete very much. I think the groups who paradoxically
do compete are competing for the worst of the private rented sector.
We come back to this issue about the private rented sector, the
cheap end of the private rented sector, as being the likely destination
for the majority of new, or for a large percentage of new, entrant
migrants. That is precisely the sector which provides marginal
housing—cheap, nasty marginal housing—for the majority
of those in housing need. That may be the place where actually
the competition plays out. If I think of Slough, for example,
where Shelter has a housing aid centre, Slough has one of the
largest Polish populations outside of London. Two years ago it
was relatively easy for us to find homeless people locations in
the private rented sector in Slough. Now it is almost possible
for us to do so because those homes are now multiple occupancy
for Polish migrant workers. So it may be that is the place where
this competition plays out.
Q363 Lord Best:
Can I test whether you are coming to two conclusions here, collectively?
The first is that the popular idea that loads of council housing,
housing association homes are now being pre-empted by migrants
and cannot be occupied by the indigenous population is a complete
travesty; the facts show that only a tiny proportion are entering
social housing of any sort. They are taking, as you say, the worst
and the empty properties of the private rental sector. But is
your second conclusion that possibly we are getting to a point
where we have filled up that bottom layer of appalling accommodation
that nobody else much wanted, and that this may now begin to spill
over, particularly the point that Helen was making, and that after
a year you gain entitlement to social housing that you do not
have for a year, that we may be reaching the break at which social
housing will be—and it has not yet been affected in any
significant way, but that it will be?
Professor Whitehead: Shall I start with the
more statistical area and allow people to do the other area? I
think that the popular myth stories like the hoards coming down
from the north are very popular myths—they do not exist.
What is true is that in the popular discussion there is a massive
lack of distinction between migrants, mobile and ethnic minority.
Most of the housing statistics are in the context of ethnic minority,
many of whom are nationals and have been here for four generations.
In terms of the migrants coming into the social sector, foreign
nationals—both EU or non EU—are a tiny proportion
but a slightly growing proportion. In terms of the filling up—going
back to Lord Layard's point—clearly the general pressure
on the private rental sector. The fact that they have been able
to fill the accommodation is increasing the demand for housing
and is pushing up prices, so there is that general effect. In
terms of the feelings of social pressure on scarce resources in
general, we certainly found that in London that was an area of
concern and that housing was an important part of that, and this
was not necessarily at migrants, it was at people coming into
the area, which is your point. So, yes the pressure is greater
because there are more households, not particularly because they
are migrant.
Ms Williams: I would broadly agree with your
conclusions there. Certainly current lettings are a tiny proportion
to new migrants, though in the future we might expect to see more
applicants. I think, if we look at the reasons why that might
be, it is because housing association rents are broadly half the
rents in the private rental sector; there are issues around security
of tenure—there is greater security of tenure in social
housing. So you might expect that as more people become eligible
alongside other groups on low, moderate incomes, they will look
to social housing to meet their needs. When we look at who we
are housing currently from the new migrant communities, they are
giving reasons that they are currently overcrowded, loss of tied
accommodation and in some instances racial harassment as well.
So these are the things that are causing current demand—people
are looking in some instances to move to improve their housing
circumstances.
Lord Vallance of Tummel: May I thank you very
much indeed for spending your time with us, and thank you for
your evidence both oral and written.
|
