Examination of Witnesses (Questions 560-562)
Mr Cephas Ralph
1 MAY 2008
Q560 Viscount Brookeborough: The
crew are not accessories?
Mr Ralph: Of course they are but legally what
they are doing they could be doing anywhere. What they are doing
is not specific to the crime as such, I suppose. That has never
been an avenue we have gone down. Ultimately we do have to get
on board but most of our activity is not about taking people to
court. Most of our activity is about deterring illegal activity
and disrupting it where we find it and we do that by our presence
and advertising our presence. The technology that we have is pretty
good. Satellite technology relies on a signal being sent from
the fishing boat and arriving back at our HQ. In the first systems
that were installed the signal was capable of being tampered with,
ie, they could inject false positions, speeds, courses, and we
had vessels in places where the aircraft said that we might be
500 miles apart. We developed a new tamper-proof technology. That
standard was put forward and accepted as a European standard so
we now, as far as I am aware, have the most secure satellite system
in the world. Obviously, in the field I am in there are quite
a small number of practitioners worldwide and no-one has ever
been able to convince me that they have a better system than ours.
The next big thing in technology will be electronic logbooks.
The CFP is predicated on the theory that fishermen enter into
their logbooks what they do and that is amalgamated into the scientific
record of what the fleet or the nation or the whole of Europe
has done. The problem with that, as I said, is that fishing is
a largely unobserved activity so historically fishermen would
perhaps not complete their logbooks unless they were inspected
or until the very last minute and then what they put in might
or might not have been historically true. The great thing about
an electronic logbook is that it will automatically transmit at
midnight or some similar time what has been entered in it, so
the evidence has already gone, so fill it in or do not fill it
in, we will know immediately. The great strength for us is that
we will be able to analyse the information coming in real time
from the electronic logbook and know in real time essentially
who is telling the truth and who is not. Fifteen boats all fishing
in the same area might catch different amounts and different types
of fish but overall, depending on their power and capacity, their
catches will be broadly similar. If someone is putting wrong figures
in their logbook it will jump out immediately and that is how
we analyse paper logbooks to see who is cheating and we do that
historically. With electronic logbooks it can be done in real
time. The great thing about technology is that the satellite communications
are becoming ever cheaper, computer power is becoming ever cheaper.
We find that with the vast majority of illegal activity that we
disrupt or detect we know it is there before we arrive. We very
rarely come across things by accident any more. Most of our activity
is directed by the back-room boys who do the number crunching
and the statistical analysis.
Q561 Chairman: I am just wondering
about this need to board. I have no personal knowledge of it,
of course, but I understand with speed cameras on roads that if
they get you it is the registered keeper who is liable unless
he can demonstrate that it was somebody else who was driving the
car. Does a similar thing apply to boats?
Mr Ralph: There are some instances where you
can ask to see the photograph, I believe, from speed cameras and
say, "That is not me", and then the case would not proceed.
There are some instances where the vessel's speed alone determines
its legality. There is an area to the west of Ireland where a
species called orange ruffey are caught and that is in particular
biological difficulties so even slowing down through that area
is a criminal offence. We have not successfully prosecuted anyone
for that yet. People are generally sticking to it. We have had
a few occasions where people have had engine difficulties and
have phoned us in and said, "Look. I am going to have to
slow down but I am not fishing for orange ruffey. You can come
and have a look". The automatic designation of an accused
is a difficult thing and it would have to be done in each jurisdiction.
For instance, we may or may not be able to do it for a Scottish
accused. I think if it was a Danish or a French or a Spanish accused
it might be even more problematic. It is not my field of expertise.
Earl of Arran: What kind of additional technology
would you like to have but you just ain't got that would really
help your cause? Give us your dream.
Q562 Chairman: "Beam me down,
Scotty"!
Mr Ralph: Instant travel would, of course, be
extremely useful. I suppose the next piece of dream technology
that is already being used in some countries is real-time cameras
where the larger units have the area of the ship where the nets
are coming on board covered by CCTV. You do have to be careful
with technology because you do not want to impose an undue burden
on those who are sticking to the rules, and someone who does not
want a CCTV camera to work on his vessel I am sure could find
a few ways of making it not work. Black spray paint is pretty
good if you spray the lens cover. One of the things that we have
found with satellite technology for the monitoring system was
that it had a button on the back marked "Off" and "On"
and that was a great temptation for some, so when we designed
the tamper-proof system we essentially put a small motorcycle
battery in the box. If you cut the power to it it ran for three
weeks but it immediately sent us a signal to say, "My power
has been cut". What you have to do with technology is allow
the default position to be the fail/safe, and failures are automatically
communicated back to a centre. You cannot rely on technology having
power all the time and you cannot rely on technology not being
interfered with. You have to design it quite cleverly. Video cameras
are great and those who want to prove that they are obeying the
rules I am sure will keep power going to the video camera and
keep the lens nice and polished and all the rest of it, but those
who do not, I suspect, will interfere with it. It is not difficult
to prove that something happened but on a fishing boat 400 miles
out in the ocean it is very difficult to prove who did it because
you are not going to have any witnesses.
Chairman: Thank you very much indeed.
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