Examination of Witnesses (Questions 808-819)
Mr Geir Evensen and Mr Paul Oma
8 MAY 2008
Q808 Chairman: Good afternoon. Thank
you very much for coming to help us. Let me briefly explain what
we are about and who we are. We are a Sub-Committee of the House
of Lords Select Committee on the European Union. We are carrying
out an inquiry into the Common Fisheries Policy and we have had
one and a half days solid of the Common Fisheries Policy. You
are our last witnesses. I am glad to say that the words "Common
Fisheries Policy" are banned for this session. It is a great
opportunity for us to hear from you. We are very grateful to you
for coming along so that we can hear about a totally different
system, something to reflect on and think about. This is a formal
evidence session so a note will be taken and you will get a transcript
of it and be able to correct it in the light of any errors that
may happen. Would you like to start by making an introductory
statement and then go on to questions and answers?
Mr Evensen: Yes. Let me first say that we are pleased
to come here and have the opportunity to talk a little about the
Norwegian policy. I have prepared some numbers for you which give
a little overview of the Norwegian fisheries. Let me introduce
my colleague, Paul Oma. He works here at the Mission as a Fisheries
Counsellor. He is responsible for the resource management. I am
also a Fisheries Counsellor. I am more into trade and exports
and agriculture. The total production in 2007 was somewhere between
3.5 million and 3.6 million tonnes. We do not have the exact numbers
yet, but it is a bit too early but it is a little more than 3.5
million tonnes. That includes fish and fishery products from both
Norwegian vessels and foreign vessels. The wild fish was 2.8 million
tonnes approximately. 300,000 tonnes of that was from foreign
vessels and it leaves 2.5 million tonnes from Norwegian vessels
landed in Norway. We have about 7,300 vessels. That was in 2006
according to the register. We have about 14,000 fishermen. If
you look at the aquaculture sector the production in 2006 was
708,000 tonnes. We do not have the exact numbers for 2007 but
it will be a lot more, probably more than 800,000 tonnes. We have
about 2,900 licences in the aquaculture sector. The important
ones are 929 licences for salmon and rainbow trout. That is the
commercial end, big industry. In addition we have a lot of licences
for shellfish, cod, halibut and other species which are very small
in quantity. Our industry is certainly an export industry. About
95% of the production is exported and seafood exports are about
5% of the total exports from Norway. Of course, oil and gas are
the big articles here. I think they were 68% of total exports
in 2006. Seafood will be the third biggest article when it comes
to export value but it is important to remember that the seafood
industry is something which takes place along the entire coast.
It is very important to all the small societies we have in Norway.
We are proud of our exports. Last year the amount was 37 billion
Norwegian kroner, which is about £3.7 billion. That was a
new record. The biggest articles are salmon, of course, with more
than 17 billion Norwegian kroner, and cod and herring are second
and third on that list. Every day 27 million meals of Norwegian
seafood are served around the world. When it comes to land-based
industry, we have about 700 plants which are approved to process
fish in one way or another. In addition we have vessels which
are approved for processing fish, like factory vessels. Those
are some figures for you. I do not know exactly what you are planning
but you have a note from the Ministry of Fisheries which explains
a little about the politics of the fishery arena but if you want
to hear about aquaculture or the organisation of the market in
Norway we can explain that.
Chairman: So far we have tended to put aquaculture
on one side and I think we will continue with that. We are interested
in how you organise, regulate and control your sea fishing industry.
Q809 Viscount Ullswater: In your
paper you emphasise that restrictions on access to fisheries are
critical to conservation as well as to the economy of the fleet.
How do you ensure that the capacity of the fleet is in line with
the available fishing opportunities?
Mr Oma: First of all I have to say that we do
not have a balance yet between resources and fishing capacity.
There is still to a large extent over-capacity in the fishing
fleet. However, we are trying to get there and we have over the
last 10 years seen a significant reduction in the number of vessels.
My colleague mentioned that in 2006 we had 7,300 vessels approximately
and 10 years ago we had 13,600, so it is a 46% reduction in the
number of vessels. We have also been looking at engine power.
There was an increase in engine power even though the number of
vessels was reduced. For many decades we have had a reduction
in the number of vessels but the total engine power went up for
the fishing fleet, so not until 2001 were we able to turn that
capacity in engine power around. Since 2001 we have had approximately
an 8% reduction in engine power for the fishing fleet. We have
several measures in place for trying to get a better balance.
For the smallest coastal fishing fleet vessels below 11 metres
we have a scrapping programme in place. We have had that for many
years. That has been very successful and now there is not much
over-capacity in that segment of the fleet. I believe that perhaps
this year will be the last year of this scrapping programme. When
you are building a new vessel or trying to upgrade your vessel
we have limitations on stowage capacity. For instance, in the
purse seiner fleet you are not allowed to have stowage capacity
beyond 2,000 cubic metres and in the coastal fleet the limit is
300 cubic metres. It sets a limit on how big the vessels can be.
Some years ago we introduced a fee to be registered as a fishing
vessel and that simple measure actually removed a huge number
of small, inactive vessels which constituted a potential fishing
capacity if we introduced tradable quotas.
Q810 Viscount Ullswater: Is it an
annual licence fee?
Mr Oma: It is an annual licence fee now, yes.
In the first years it was quite high and now it is at a lower
level. Also, we have what we call structural measures. This means
that we have divided the fleet into different segments or groups,
so within your group, for instance, if you are in ocean-going
vessels, you are not allowed to buy or transfer quotas from coastal
vessels; there are fences between the different groups, but within
your group you are allowed to transfer quotas. The general rule
is that you can fish three times your original quota with one
vessel. The vessel that transfers its quota is not allowed to
fish in that fishery, of course. If I have a vessel with 100 tonnes
of cod, let us say, and my colleague here has another vessel with
100 tonnes of cod and we are in the same group, I can offer him
an economic compensation and then I will be able to fish his quota
but only 80 tonnes of his quota. The 20 remaining tonnes go back
to the group so it means that everybody benefits from these structural
measures, including those not participating in it. Everybody buying
quota will, of course, have more to fish but also the ones not
buying extra quotas will have some extra bigger quotas to share
among themselves.
Q811 Baroness Jones of Whitchurch:
Is there a set price for the quota?
Mr Oma: No. The market takes care of the price.
Q812 Viscount Brookeborough: And
is the quota redistributed every year to the boats or do they
own it individually?
Mr Oma: In the most important fisheries we have
divided up the quota into factors, so every vessel with a licence
has a certain percentage of the Norwegian quota.
Q813 Viscount Brookeborough: But
the size may vary from year to year?
Mr Oma: Yes, but you have this factor that is
stable, and then it will vary according to the level of their
total allowable catch, of course. If I just can mention a few
things about the profitability of the industry on the fleet levels,
we have seen that we have increased profitability according to
this. We believe that structural measures have increased the profitability
in the industry.
Q814 Earl of Arran: You mentioned
technical regulations but how do you go about them? Do you impose
measures such as mesh sizes or gear types, et cetera, to be used
on your vessels or do you incentivise and reward them for using
the best technology available? How does it work?
Mr Oma: The simple answer is yes, we impose
regulations. We have no incentive-based regulations. When it comes
to technical regulations they are fixed and have to be followed.
Q815 Earl of Arran: Do you use mesh
sizes?
Mr Oma: Yes. We have a very sophisticated system
of technical regulations and they range from twine thickness to
mesh size to minimum sizes of fish and everything. We have also
very specific regulations when it comes to what kind of gear technology
you have to apply.
Q816 Earl of Arran: Are they similar
mesh sizes for catching similar types of fish as used by Member
States in the EU?
Mr Oma: Yes. We have the same mesh size. When
it comes to demersal fisheries in the North Sea, for instance,
we have 120 millimetres. I know that in the Community waters you
are allowed to use 110 millimetres fishing for saithe but in the
Norwegian economic zone it is 120 millimetres. Other than that
we have the same mesh sizes in the demersal fisheries, but we
do not allow for what you call nephrops fisheries in your waters
with 70 or 90 millimetres. That is not allowed in Norwegian waters.
Q817 Chairman: Can I go back to quotas
for a moment? How is the Norwegian quota calculated or decided
upon and to what extent are fishermen's organisations involved
in that discussion?
Mr Oma: First and foremost it is based upon
scientific advice. We enter into negotiations with the EU or Russia
and we have our share of these quotas which we agree with you.
Then we have internal discussions in Norway on how to distribute
them between the Norwegian fleet groups and the Directorate of
Fisheries makes a proposal for how we should regulate the fishery
for the coming year and he invites then the full spectrum of interested
parties, the NGOs in environmental organisations and all the fishing
industry from fishermen's organisations to processing organisations,
and they exchange views on the Director-General's fisheries proposal.
Based upon these discussions, the Director-General of Fisheries
will send his proposal to the Ministry of Fisheries and the final
decision will be taken by the Minister of Fisheries. Normally
in these meetings we will try to get a compromise solution and
it is very rare that the Minister does not follow the recommendation.
In certain cases, of course, the Director-General of Fisheries
has only to reflect the discussions and say, "My recommendation
is this and the industry needs this", and the Ministry has
to take the decision on how they want to do it.
Q818 Lord Cameron of Dillington:
When it comes to trading quota does the Government act as the
broker?
Mr Oma: No.
Q819 Lord Cameron of Dillington:
But there are independent brokers, are there?
Mr Oma: Yes, sure, there are independent brokers.
Chairman: Let us go on now to an area which has fascinated
us, which is your discard policy.
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