Examination of Witness (Questions 880-898)
Mr Roddy McColl
11 JUNE 2008
Q880 Lord Plumb: You speak of the
morass of rules and regulations and call for simplification, and
that is a point that has been shared by many of the witnesses
we have received, and many of us, I think, would readily agree
with you, but how do you do it? You have got the existing policy.
The French takeover the Presidency of the council on 1 July. Each
country now has its points and even the ambassador yesterday who
was speaking to us spoke of the importance of simplification,
which is good news, but how do we set about it in the fisheries
policy?
Mr McColl: With the current fisheries policy.
Q881 Lord Plumb: Yes.
Mr McColl: I would find it very difficult to
do, but to start with, given the amount of rules and regulations,
how do you strip away the ones which are less relevant to ensure
that you have a more effective and a simpler set of rules? In
my view, though, simplification in the Commission's eyes does
not actually mean less rigid rules. It may make it easier to understand.
Although a lawyer, I find it quite difficult to get to grips with
some of the rules and regulations that I have got to read to try
to explain them to members. I have no view on how to make it simpler.
I hope that Defra and the Scottish Government officials might
be able to come up with some ideas that we can have a consultation
about. I am sorry, I cannot answer it any better than that.
Q882 Lord Plumb: Representing the
Federation of Fishermen, would it not be to your advantage and
the advantage of the organisation to start thinking about ideas
of simplification? Your chances of withdrawing, which is what
you recommend, are nil, and so would it not be better if you came
up with a general view on what you think could be done. That surely
is what we are looking for, are we not?
Mr McColl: We try to take a pragmatic view of
how we deal with the EU fisheries issues. There are some that
we have to prioritise more than others. This particular one we
do not think will get us very far, and to devote time and energy
to something like that when there are more important issues to
be dealt with is something that we are not taking part in just
now.
Q883 Lord Cameron of Dillington:
To some extent my question has already been asked, but virtually
everyone we have met has said the basic problem with the Common
Fisheries Policy is that there are too many modern, technically
advanced, increasingly efficient fishing boats, fishermen, chasing,
because of its efficiency, reducing resource and, therefore, some
form of decommissioning, form of reduction in capacity, is what
is required. I might also add that we got the impression that,
having gone through the pain, the current remaining Scottish fisheries
industry seems to be doing rather better that in has done in the
past partly as a result of the pain it has gone through. How do
you bring about a better alignment of capacity and resources without
the decommissioning that you are very much against in your written
submission?
Mr McColl: I think that, because of the pain
that has been suffered as a result of the 2001, 2003 decommissioning
schemes when some 165 vessels were scrapped, and I think the Scottish
Government's paper suggested that 360 odd vessels have come out
of the Scottish fleet since 1993, given the current economic circumstances
of the fleet, there will be many more people now willing to look
at decommissioning than when I put this paper together in February
of this year. The impact of the fuel crisis has been quite horrific
in certain areas of the UK, and I think there probably will be
a willingness now to go down a route that they would prefer not
to.
Q884 Lord Wallace of Tankerness:
You said you have been campaigning for the fishing industry for
30 years and I think we have encountered each other a number of
times?
Mr McColl: We have indeed.
Q885 Lord Wallace of Tankerness:
I think you would agree that over that period there have been
number of occasions when, in fact, the pressure for decommissioning
has come from the industry itself and, indeed, was often resisted
by government.
Mr McColl: Yes.
Q886 Lord Wallace of Tankerness:
Is it not fair to say that these things are cyclical and that
decommissioning is a relevant management tool, if the circumstances
require it, in order to get the resource and the catching capacity
into alignment?
Mr McColl: It has been a management tool, and
that has been used effectively in some areas, as a blunt instrument
in other areas, but I think that the current set of circumstances
facing the industry will see a growing clamour for decommissioning
to be used.
Q887 Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe:
You responded to Lord Plumb on simplification, saying that you
had not done any work on that, it did not figure very high in
your order of priorities in the Association. Leave aside the "let
us get us out of the fisheries policy completely" and the
problems that might arise with Europe on that, but what would
you identify as being your principal priorities and what other
priorities are there that you think we could address that perhaps
might help your members?
Mr McColl: That is a question I had not anticipated.
Q888 Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe:
Neither had I until I heard your response to Lord Plumb!
Mr McColl: I think that there is a need for
funding to be made available for continued training in the fishing
industry, both on shore and off shore, to ensure that we have
a work force that has relevant skills for the industry just now.
There are many immigrant workers in the fishing industry, both
on-shore and off-shore. There were Latvians and Lithuanians and
Poles, and it is now Philippines who are crewing many boats. I
even heard there were Egyptians crewing some vessels. They are
taking away the berths from the local indigenous fisher people.
I am not quite sure how that can be addressed by this committee,
but there needs to be a system put in place that helps new entrants
into the industry from the local communities rather than having
to employ non-indigenous fishery people.
Q889 Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe:
Anything else?
Mr McColl: No, I think that would be a priority.
It is training. I am a manager of a training association in Scotland
representing the highlands and islands. That tends to be a particular
pet subject of mine.
Q890 Viscount Brookeborough: Quite
clearly one of the major issues is people, apart from whether
there are fish there to catch, and so on. When we were in Peterhead
we learnt that unemployment was less than 1%, and admittedly it
was because of the oil industry nearby. Can you give us any idea
as to the effect of the decline of the fishing industry in other
areas throughout the UK? For instance, if you take Devon and Cornwall,
or wherever, what is the unemployment rate? Have people been able
to find alternative jobs and, therefore, moved away from the area
or, in fact, is there depopulation in certain areas as a result
of the reduction in fishing? Is there misery out there?
Mr McColl: There is misery out there. I was
reading a letter to the Cabinet Secretary, Richard Lochhead, from
Ship Chandler, the other day pointing out the misery in Fraserburgh
where young people cannot get a job. They have the skills but
they cannot get a job in the fishing industry because of immigrant
labour; the fisherman who has had to give up his vessel because
he cannot afford the fuel prices. So there is misery out there.
Q891 Viscount Brookeborough: But
there are people, for instance, who come out of university with
certain skills in education who subsequently cannot find a job
there but do find a job elsewhere. What is the unemployment rate
in Fraserburgh?
Mr McColl: The unemployment rate is probably
quite low, below 5%, because of what you have already said about
the availability of oil work still being very high. There are
people willing, of course, to move away to get that work.
Q892 Viscount Brookeborough: What
about other parts of the United Kingdom?
Mr McColl: I do not have the actual statistics.
If it would help, I can easily get them and provide them to the
committee.
Q893 Chairman: Do you have to hand
statistics on fishermen's incomes, the average Peterhead share
fishermen?
Mr McColl: I personally do not have that to
hand, but, again, that is information that could be easily obtained
and provided to the committee from the Sea Fishing Industry Authority.
Q894 Lord Plumb: Could we also then
have some information on costs?
Mr McColl: Yes.
Q895 Lord Plumb: It was interesting
talking to some of the skippers when we went to Peterhead, in
fact, the cost of a 10-day fishing trip for instance. I think
with the rising costs at the moment, it must be a very worrying
feature.
Mr McColl: Yes, the Sea Fishing Industry Authority,
again, would provide economic analysis and the impact of the rising
fuel prices. A paper was done for the Scottish Fisheries Council,
of which I am a member, about a month ago, showing the impact
on the various types of fishing vessel if the oil price went up
from 50p to 60p to 70p a litre, or whatever it may be. That information,
again, could be provided quite readily.
Q896 Lord Wallace of Tankerness:
You also mentioned the oil and gas industry. I am certainly aware
that a number of fishermen actually use their vessels for some
of the services to the oil and gas industry. Can you give the
committee an indication from your knowledge of the extent to which
that has developed over the years, and is it seen as a diversification
of activity and helping to fill in the gaps if they are not allowed
to be at sea for fishing purposes?
Mr McColl: It most certainly has filled in the
gaps. It is a diversification. Unfortunately, members of the Sea
Fishing Association Ltd are unable to secure these jobs. It is
work that is basically a monopoly, controlled by a fishing organisation,
the largest in Scotland, and they have not found it appropriate
to provide any jobs to members of the Fishermen's Association,
a matter that is of deep regret and which we have raised with
our local MP. However, I understand that these jobs are becoming
less available and that instead of, say, 30 or 40 contracts being
on the go at any one time, they are down to about 10 now. So that
will have a knock-on effect as well because people will then come
back into the fishery which were not there with more effort being
put onto the stocks.
Q897 Chairman: Thank you very much,
Mr McColl. We have come to the end of our questions. Is there
anything that you feel that you want to say to us that you have
not had the opportunity of saying to us yet?
Mr McColl: No, Lord Chairman. I think that I
have said, perhaps not as eloquently as I would have liked—
Q898 Chairman: We all have that problem!
Mr McColl: However, with the combination of
the written evidence and this oral session, hopefully I have covered
everything that the Fishermen's Association would like to say,
and thank you very much for the opportunity you have given me
to do so.
Chairman: Thank you very much indeed and thank
you very much for coming all the way down from Aberdeen.
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