Select Committee on European Union Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witnesses (Questions 85-99)

Mr Edwin Laurent and Dr Mohammad Razzaque

17 JUNE 2008

  Q85 Chairman: Good morning, Mr Laurent and Dr Razzaque. Welcome to you both. You have our list of questions. If you would like to make an opening statement, please do. If not, we will go straight to questions. It is entirely up to you.

Mr Laurent: I would like to make some brief opening remarks and then we can proceed to questions. My Lord Chairman, my Lords, I wish to place this whole matter in context, first of all, and give a bit of a background on the Commonwealth. Of course you all know the Commonwealth very well but its role in trade and economic matters is probably less well-known. We are a grouping of 53 states, with two billion citizens, and responsible for one-fifth of world trade with one-quarter of the world's governments; therefore the Commonwealth has the legitimacy to be heard and to make a difference. We are best known, of course, for our role in promoting democracy, good governance, human rights and the rule of law, gender equality, and sustainable economic and social development, but these goals really can only be achieved in an environment in which poverty, under-development, and gross inequities among and within nations can be dispensed with. Therefore, we consider that we have an important role in promoting economic development. Recent developments in the world economy of course have overshadowed a lot of what has been going on; particularly the problems with petroleum prices, the credit squeeze, and the general economic slowdown. This is something which has been of great concern to us. The larger economies, the developed economies, might be able to withstand this pressure as well as some of the major developing countries (China, Brazil, et cetera) but many of the others, that do not export those commodities (particularly minerals and petroleum products) that are on the up, might be really facing some serious difficulties. It is those countries that we are particularly worried about because of the threats that they currently face. But of course the situation is not all bleak. The last decade was one of really spectacular growth in the global economy. We saw something like a 20% overall increase in global incomes during that decade and things were looking good. The problem, though, is that that bonanza was not being evenly shared. Some countries, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa, rather than keeping up were generally falling backwards. Towards the end of the last century or maybe at the start of this century, there probably was a growing sensitivity among world leaders, and maybe in the world generally, of a shared responsibility for tackling those sorts of problems which stemmed from poverty and inequity. Indications of that new awareness were initiatives like the Doha Development Agenda, as well as the Monterrey Consensus, and, most particularly, the Millennium Development Goals. We know, unfortunately, that these very well-meaning objectives and goals that were set to be met by the year 2015 are really no way close to being achieved, and that is something which is exceedingly serious, not just for those leaders who committed themselves to these goals way back in September of 2000 but also to the billions of people whose lives might really be affected and improved if there is progress in the Millennium Development Goals. Earlier this year there was a review of the Millennium Development Goals by the UN and it is clear that the world is not on target. What can be done? There is no point moaning over spilt milk. The world has not performed well so far, what can be done between now and the future to really make a difference, to raise those millions out of poverty? According to the UN, it is projected, despite what is going on, that by the year 2015 one-sixth of the world's population will still be living on less than one dollar a day. That is their projection. There will be little improvement with respect to maternal health in sub-Saharan Africa and the situation in some of the major diseases (HIV/AIDS, malaria, et cetera) will not necessarily be any more favourable than it does seem now. But change is possible. We believe that what is needed is to increase incomes in countries. Increased incomes and improved governance, so that there would be an improvement in the distribution of income but attention could also be paid to addressing the social issues in countries and to ensuring that there is empowerment of women, because we think that for certain of the Millennium Development Goals the empowerment of women, of mothers, is essential. How do you get income into countries? Of course aid is important, but aid will not be enough. We consider, as far as aid is concerned, that there should be an attempt to move towards these promises that have already been made by the G8 and others, and the delivery of aid should probably be in keeping with the principles of the Paris Declaration on Aid Effectiveness. But that is not all. Countries need to earn for themselves as well and this is where trade comes in. It is through trading and generating income from export that countries will be able to get the necessary funding to address their domestic needs. Many countries considered that the structure of world trade was not favourable to them. They hoped that the Doha Development Agenda would review the rules, the basis on which they trade, and maybe ensure that some of those governmental actions that impede free trade would be addressed, and that there would be a greater opportunity for rebalancing and permitting opportunities to those countries that are currently less competitive. This of course would have been the Doha Development Agenda. The final principal area where additional income can come from and which is essential is that of investment. Aid provides support via the public sector, but if one is to bring about real change and the ability of countries to produce, one needs to ensure that the private sector in developing countries is strengthened. There is the need for investment and there is the need for appropriate technology. The Commonwealth considers itself, given some of the features that I alluded to earlier, to be well placed as a partner to work with other countries, with governments, in seeking to ensure that the Millennium Development Goals get back on track. I do know that this is not the specific focus of the inquiry, but I thought that this would be important as a background and as a backdrop. Thank you, My Lord Chairman.

  Q86  Chairman: Thank you. I think we all understand the extreme importance of trade for countries' income. It extremely important to enable countries to earn money and raise the income of their citizens. One of the things that has puzzled us when looking at what is going on is that many developing countries have taken steps towards unilateral trade liberalisation and some have taken steps towards bilateral agreements with trading partners. Everybody is trying to move in different directions. At the same time, there is a reluctance to give any concessions during the Doha Round talks. What do you think is causing these contradictory positions?

  Mr Laurent: That is a clear and apparent contradiction, My Lord Chairman. However, in reality, if one digs a little deeper one will find that many of those unilateral concessions which have been made by developing countries were not really done voluntarily. That is one sense. Many of those tariff reductions, et cetera, were undertaken during the 1980s and 1990s under IMF/World Bank conditionality, attached to loans which were required by these countries, so they did not have much choice. Of course, there were some other reductions that were undertaken within the context of bilateral and regional trading arrangements. In these cases, the countries were able to clearly see a benefit from giving these concessions. By giving these concessions they were doing two things: first, they were of course lowering the cost of imports into their markets, but more significantly, they were securing opportunities for their own exporters to be able to enter more competitively the markets of their trading partners. There was a very obvious benefit, therefore, and, as you would appreciate of course, when there is visible benefit it is much easier politically to sell a concession to one's domestic audience. That is as far as the reductions both unilaterally and within a bilateral context were concerned. Within the multilateral context, why is it that they have been unwilling to provide those concessions? One reason is because many of them consider that they have already made very substantial reductions in tariffs and they are worried about further reductions that would even reduce their scope for policy flexibility later on, and the other is that some consider that they might not necessarily be obtaining the reciprocal benefits from further reductions at the multilateral level.

  Q87  Lord Maclennan of Rogart: Mr Laurent, could I amplify your answer and try to draw out of it the message which we might want to reflect on. You said that there were two opposing sets of circumstances almost in dealing with the bilateral liberalisation, where developing countries are doing things on the one hand involuntarily or subject to some sort of pressure and on the other where it is obvious to them there is an advantage, but I have no clarity in my mind from that what are the differences that lead to those two sets of circumstances. Can you describe more particularly the sectoral examples, perhaps, even if you do not feel willing to mention the names of particular countries falling into the two camps? I am not sure what lesson we have to draw from this analysis really. That is the problem.

  Mr Laurent: With your permission, My Lord Chairman, I would like for this particular question and maybe for some subsequent ones, to ask my colleague Dr Razzaque to assist with the answer. I think my Lord is referring to those countries which were obliged to reduce tariffs by the Bretton Woods Institutions. These countries, of course, were under structural adjustment programmes of the Bretton Woods Institutions, and this was a requirement for them to do so, to reduce tariffs, which generally went way below the bound rates. At the moment, several developing countries, particularly in Africa and in South Asia, have tariff levels that operate way below their WTO bound rates.

  Q88  Lord Maclennan of Rogart: Do you accept that these changes were a design fault or do you think that there were some problems?

  Mr Laurent: I was not expressing an opinion at all as to the desirability or otherwise but merely indicating that this was the factual situation and therefore it explains the apparent contradiction. They reduced, as it were, involuntarily, whether it was good or bad. Many countries, particularly in Latin America, would say that this enforced openness had very positive, pro-development results, whilst in some other countries they might be of a different view. So I am not at all getting into that discussion.

  Q89  Lord Maclennan of Rogart: In a sense this Committee might want to take a view about some of these issues. We do not just want to describe the situation; we want to look at charting the way ahead, so, if you have a view, it would be very interesting to hear it.

  Mr Laurent: I am not sure that I would be permitted the liberty of a view on this, but I would ask my colleague Dr Razzaque to give his personal view, as opposed to the view of the Commonwealth Secretariat which is quite neutral on this particular matter.

  Dr Razzaque: Thank you, My Lord Chairman, my Lords. The issue is very involved. It is quite perplexing. On the one hand we say that multilateral liberalisation commitments are there, and I understand that currently almost all countries are members of bilateral arrangements or regional trading arrangements. The issue is that, for some of the low-income developing countries, the way the WTO arrangements are framed they are not expected to undertake new commitments. That is a binding constraint for these policy makers, because here the issue is what you call the political economy factors. With, for instance, countries in the group of LDCs are not expected to undertake new commitments but that does not help the policy makers because their exporters are not in a position to access markets. I can give you one clear example: the duty-free/quota-free access to LDCs. Although all views support that LDCs should get duty-free/quota-free access to developed countries, still some of the Asian LDCs are not in a position to access duty-free/quota-free access to the US. What are the choices for them? These countries can unilaterally take commitments under multilateral arrangements, or they can go into bilateral arrangements and make sure that their exports get duty-free access to these markets. That is what those partners and trading blocs are trying to arrange every time. My view—and it is not necessarily the Commonwealth Secretariat's official position—is that right now the issue is that many countries are trying to ensure that their exporters have ready access to their neighbouring countries or large developed countries and that is why these bilateral interests are emerging, because politically it is more tenable to assure the people at home that the export market has been ensured through these bilateral interests. Although economists in general have this understanding that when countries liberalise or open up unilaterally it is in the interests of the consumers and that is welfare enhancing; for the policy makers it is very difficult to sell this idea only to open up, not ensuring their exporters' access to other countries. That is where I see these contradictory developments taking place.

  Q90  Chairman: Dr Razzaque, I thought I caught you saying that it is more interesting for a country to conduct an agreement with its neighbours because those are the people it can export to. If you were a country in sub-Saharan Africa, it might be of great concern to you that the South African market is open and not very interesting as to whether bits of the American market are open. Is that what you were suggesting?

  Dr Razzaque: My Lord Chairman, as you know there is a problem with the export structure of developing countries. Developing countries, especially in the regions, basically compete for similar kinds of export goods in the global market. Also, because of the fact that the consumers in these countries tend to concentrate on similar kinds of products, and especially when countries are relatively less developed they tend to focus on the primary commodities, their market is not well diversified. On the other hand, when they trade with developed countries, then as partners they can take advantage of the nature of their already existing resource endowments. For example, if a low income country is trading with high income countries, the low income country can take advantage of exporting labour intensive goods. If they are forming regional integration, only within the region, then the problem is that they cannot take advantage of this particular thing, because in terms of the production and resource strcutures probably those countries in the region are more or less similar. Of course there is a point of co-operation amongst the regional countries so that they can take advantage of what is known as economies of scale. That can definitely be enhanced through regional co-operation, that is not an issue, but the main problem for them is that if their trade is to expand at a satisfactory rate then they will have to trade with more developed countries or relatively advanced developing countries.

  Q91  Lord Woolmer: Is the concern amongst the developing countries principally to secure more open export markets or are they more concerned about protecting their domestic market? In other words, do politicians in developing countries see these as two sides of the same coin, or are they really only interested fundamentally in seeing the benefits of getting export markets opened up, but really they would rather like to do that but protect their domestic market at the same time? What is the impetus? Is it protecting their domestic market? Is that the political goal before they go multilateral? Or is it that they really see a lot of benefit in opening up export markets? What is the driver in the politician's mind in the Commonwealth, for example?

  Mr Laurent: Thank you very much, my Lord. I would say, first of all, that even within the Commonwealth, developing countries are not homogeneous, and beyond the Commonwealth the diversity is even greater. Both of these factors exist in the minds of policy makers of developing countries, but the circumstances of the countries have a lot to do with which of those two would be much more significant. For instance, in countries with a large internal market, the protection could be more important, but for countries that are exceedingly small, for instance, that is much less significant. It is really a mix of motivations.

  Q92  Lord Woolmer: Some members of the Commonwealth have raised concerns about the loss of preferential trading terms in any WTO agreement. Is this a roadblock to a successful conclusion of the current round? If so, how can it be avoided?

  Mr Laurent: It would seem that this was a possibility sometime ago. Several countries—small countries/LDCs—are dependent on preferences. They felt that if they did not enjoy those preferences, they would lose the ability to trade, and if they were not able to trade, then what would the point in having a new agreement if that agreement was going to deny them the ability to participate in the global economy in a meaningful way? So there was that threat. However, in the negotiations now there is a proposal which seems to have general acceptance amongst most of the membership. Our understanding is that there are just a couple of countries that still are not happy, but the likelihood is that it will be agreed by all when a final package is ready. That proposal is that products that rely on preferential access arrangements (bananas, sugar, et cetera) would be given more favourable treatment; in other words, there would be a longer period for the reduction of tariffs particularly in the developed country markets. For instance, if bananas were to enjoy such an arrangement—the tariff for Europe is currently €176 per tonne—instead of the reduction being over a period of, say, six years at, say, ten% per annum—and I am just using an arbitrary figure—it would be over a much longer period at a lower reduction rate. That is the way in which the WTO is looking at dealing with this, but there are more fundamental approaches which we at the Commonwealth think could also be used by the international community to facilitate the development of these preference-dependent countries. Because, in a sense, merely retaining or permitting preferences to continue for a longer period of time, whilst this might be desirable, in the long-term is not really the best long term developmental approach. We think that what is needed is to find means to ensure that there is an increased competitiveness of those countries. The reason why they need the protection in the first place is that they are not competitive with other countries: their costs of production are too high. We need to find some means to make them more competitive. Another thing which needs to be done is to support their economic diversification, because countries cannot develop if they are going to be reliant just on one or two commodities. We think that this is an area in which Aid for Trade could have a particular benefit, but it is not Aid for Trade in the way that has often been spoken about but in a much more creative way, and certainly not Aid for Trade which is merely a repackaging of existing foreign aid to those countries.

  Q93  Lord Moser: In your introduction, which I found very helpful, you made very clear the state of developing countries: hunger, poverty, disease, et cetera, and you made very clear the importance of increasing income not just through aid but also through trade. That is the background, and you referred to the Doha Round. I just wonder whether, given the present state of the Doha Round—which, I suppose, to put it kindly, is confusing—some countries are just fed up, impatient, and have lost the appetite for multilateral approaches generally. When you talk about that, I personally would find it very helpful for all our discussions and thinking, to have your thoughts and your colleague's thoughts about the categories of countries we are talking about. We are all talking about developing countries, but that cannot be the right term we should be focusing on. Is India in your thoughts as you talk? Your colleague talked about "low-income developing countries" and that is another category. The "least developed countries" is a category in some UN documentation. It would help me at any rate and probably my colleagues too if we could begin to focus on categories of major concern, whatever they are.

  Mr Laurent: I would ask my colleague to go first.

  Dr Razzaque: This is a very interesting question. There is a general consensus among developing countries on the whole about the importance of multilateral trading systems and the multilateral element. That is the general consensus that we can fill in on the list, per se, in the discussion. That is very much there. But then the issue is how different groups of countries within the developing countries, as rightly pointed out, are there even waiting the way forward from this particular Doha Round. Here I would like to emphasise, first, the LDCs (that is, the group of least developed countries—that is the UN definition) and then I would like to shed some light on the perspectives from the relatively advanced developing countries like India, China, and Brazil. First of all, the Doha Round was dubbed as a development round and it was considered that the interests of LDCs and small, vulnerable economies would be taken into consideration by all other countries. After seven years of these negotiations in Doha, we find that the LDCs have not been given unconditional duty-free/quota-free market access. That is one issue. Also, the fact is that, in the course of the Doha Round, there is also a discussion on providing preferential treatment with regard to services trade—and this is called in WTO's language, LDCs modalities on services—but still no progress has been made with regard to what kind of preferences LDCs are going to get out of this. One issue that we discussed earlier was that many of the LDCs have already undertaken unilateral liberalisation at the behest of the World Bank, IMF, and other international donor organisations. These LDCs now realise that although they have taken unilateral liberalisation the export response to liberalisation has been very low, because of the fact that they have got serious export constraints in developed countries' markets and also relatively advanced developing countries' markets. That is why developing country policy makers are more concerned to ensure that that they have got duty-free access in other countries which is currently absent, and this whole thing makes LDCs frustrated at this moment. For relatively advanced developing countries, for instance India, Brazil, and China, the issue is quite different. Here, again, I would like to emphasise the fact that this is not an official opinion of the Commonwealth but more our personal views. Here the issue is that these countries, the developed and developing countries, consider the Doha Round as not very ambitious for them. I can give you some figures. If what is on the table realistically, and if there is going to be a deal to conclude Doha, then the total gains for India, Brazil, and China will be something like only three to 80 days' economic growth; that is, these countries are growing so fast that even if there is a successful conclusion of the Doha Round from the current situation on the table then, basically, gains to China would be just about three days' economic growth. For these countries, therefore, this round is not very ambitious. That is the problem. We are talking here about difficulties with regard to expectation of different sets of countries, but certainly the LDCs, in terms of the market access, have received nothing additional out of this Doha Round. That is frustrating for them.

  Q94  Lord Moser: For those three fast-developing developing countries, it is not so much that they have lost appetite; they do not think there is much in it for them. It is not impatience; it is that they feel they are not going to get much out of it.

  Dr Razzaque: Yes.

  Q95  Lord Moser: That is what you are saying. Going right to the other extreme, do you call them now the "least developed"? Is that the category?

  Dr Razzaque: Indeed. Yes.

  Q96  Lord Moser: The least developed countries. Have they lost appetite or are they still praying that the Doha Round will ultimately help them? You are going to the other extreme with under-development.

  Mr Laurent: It is not certain that they have lost their appetite—maybe not for the multilateral approach, but there is growing cynicism in the negotiations. The developing countries, for instance, put up something like 88 proposals on special and preferential treatment, but these have really not made any progress whatsoever in the negotiations. Speaking with representatives in Geneva, the chorus one tends to hear quite often is that there is attention being paid to liberalisation, market opening, and regulation, but not to their developmental concerns. They consider that the Doha Round is very much a traditional Round of the old GATT format. They had hoped for something different, with focus on their needs, but this has not materialised.

  Q97  Lord Moser: That is a very interesting answer. Thank you very much.

  Dr Razzaque: My Lord Chairman, with permission perhaps I can add to what Mr Laurent has just said. With regard to this particular issue, before the beginning of this Doha Round, actually there was no multilateral agreement on providing duty-free/quota-free access to LDCs although the bulk of European Union was already providing duty-free/quota-free access to most of the LDCs anyway. But under the Doha Round a provision was created under which developed countries are now bound to provide duty-free/quota-free access to LDCs for 97% of their tariff lines—and LDCs do recognise it as a positive development. Also, before the beginning of this particular round there was no mention about preferential treatment in services, but under the Doha Round there is now this discussion going on as regards how to provide LDCs preferential treatment in services trade. From those perspectives LDCs do recognise that some positive developments are taking place, but they are perhaps not being materialised as fast as they were expecting that this round was going to deliver to them.

  Q98  Lord Maclennan of Rogart: Mr Laurent, you may feel that you have said what needs to be said in answer to the question I want to put, but, to try to make it a little more concrete for me I wonder if you could give any indication whether historically you feel that developing countries have drawn benefit from multilateral trade agreements. If so, could you exemplify? If not, would you say what has been the problem?

  Mr Laurent: Again with your permission, My Lord Chairman, I would ask Dr Razzaque to comment. My view is certainly that developing countries have benefited. I would reiterate what I said earlier, that the group of developing countries is very diverse. One has had countries that have benefited tremendously, and there have been some developing countries, particularly those on the margins, that have not benefited at all. The total picture is certainly a positive one for developing countries if we go back to the end of the Uruguay Round. That would be my view, but it is a subject in which we have a lot of internal discussion and I would like to ask Dr Razzaque to give his perspectives on this.

  Dr Razzaque: My Lord Chairman, my Lords, this is an interesting question once again. Here the issue is, if we think in terms of the relative significance of countries, first I would give you the figures for developing countries. The Uruguay Round began in 1988. Then the share of developing countries in world trade—and I am talking about merchandise exports, their share of global exports—was about 27%. Now it has increased to about 40%, and side-by-side the share of developed countries has fallen from about 73% to 60%. If we are considering these figures, then some would draw the conclusion that multilateral arrangements or have benefited developing countries. But actually it is very difficult to link tariff liberalisation or trade liberalisation, as such, with the performance of the developing countries. Now let me focus on the poorest of the developing countries, the group of the least developed countries. Their share has also increased from 0.5% to 0.74% in the past ten or 12 years. But compared to their share with that of the early 1970s, which was 1.5% of global export, the current share is much lower despite the recent increase. That is my view. The main issue is that even in the academic and empirical literature it is very difficult to establish a clear-cut relationship between liberalisation at the global level and the country's performance. Even if we are putting aside this issue of how one can link those two trends, there is a general consensus that by setting clear-cut rules and multilateral disciplines, the whole trade environment has benefited the developing countries, and particularly the low-income developing countries or the least developed countries. In general, this has been perceived as beneficial to them.

  Q99  Lord Maclennan of Rogart: In answer to my colleague Lord Moser you have very helpfully distinguished between the predicament of the least developed countries and India, Brazil, et cetera. Institutionally, are you saying that in these multilateral discussions prioritisation should be given to one or other group, or that there should be parallel consideration given to the interests of these different categories of developing countries? In particular, can you say anything about how rapidly the least developed countries should be invited to remove their import tariffs? That is the very specific question.

  Mr Laurent: Maybe I could address the first, general question. The Doha Round was set up essentially to address the problems of development. There were several countries, as I indicated in my opening, that had been really falling back. The Doha Round was about helping those which had serious problems. It was not to be business as usual. The previous rounds were about market opening, liberalisation, just the removal of trade barriers for the purpose of trade expansion. Then it was recognised that that model had not served everyone, but that model works quite well for the more advanced developing countries, so I would not think that the purpose or the focus of the Doha Round was in fact to have been on those more advanced countries but really those at the bottom; those that were, as it were, dropping off the end of the table. There was a second, specific question, and Dr Razzaque will answer this.

  Dr Razzaque: The particular portion I would like to answer to is what we can expect from LDCs in terms of further tariff cuts and liberalisation. Sometimes the LDCs, are still considered to be countries with high tariffs and all the protection measures imposed on their economy, but, actually, over time these countries have opened up significantly. One critical issue here is the way that tariffs are defined in the WTO and negotiated. They use what are known as "bound rates" in order for negotiations to take place, but on the ground it is more important to consider the applied rate of tariffs: the actual rate that is being applied. I can give you some figures to illustrate this particular issue. For example, Bangladesh: in the beginning of the 1990s its average applied tariff rate was 94%, which has now come down to only 17%. If we consider another sub-Saharan African country, Kenya: it used to have an average tariff rate of something like 44% and it has now come down to only 15%. If we are looking at these average applied tariff rates that these LDCs currently have, then we will find that they are not far from average developing country experiences. That is, they are more or less similar to, any other developing country. Let us think about the case of Vietnam: Vietnam has more or less a similar tariff structure as Kenya, Tanzania or Bangladesh, but still it has managed to raise its export growth rate/GDP growth rate at a very high level compared to other LDCs. Therefore the issue is not about how much to liberalise the tariff regime further. From an LDC point of view, the issue is how they can ensure that, with this liberalisation, they can also achieve high export and GDP growth rates. The other problem that the LDCs have—which is sometimes not very well recognised in the academic literature or in the policy discussion—is the fact that these countries critically rely on tariffs for revenues. For government revenues, tariffs are a very important source for them. When most of the revenues are coming from import tariffs, the issue is that, if they are going to liberalise further, there is a clear implication for public expenditure, and if the public expenditure is going to benefit the poor then certainly it would also have other poverty and welfare consequences. The basic point the LDCs and their policy makers highlight is the fact that, despite the liberalisation measure that they have already undertaken under the World Bank or IMF prescriptions, export response or growth response in those economies has been very low. That is why they are not in a position to diversify the economy and, also, not flexible enough to rely on other taxes to generate revenues.


 
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